Benjamin's Britain

Since 2016, Ben has been on a mission to visit every site described in the book "Landmarks of Britain: The 500 Places That Made Our History". With guests who have joined Ben on his travels, this podcast is a funny, light-hearted look at the castles, caves, cathedrals, country homes (and pubs) visited along the way.At the end of each episode, guests are asked to contribute to an alternative list of landmarks and justify their choice.

All Episodes

Benjamin's Britain

19: Durham

January 28, 2022 • Ben Salamon, Nicky Pavitt and Jenny Pavitt • Season 3 • Episode 2

The tables are turned for this episode with Nicky's sister Jenny as the podcast guest. Jenny secretly loves being dragged on her sisters-friends landmarking trips and actually hosted them in Durham back in 2018, which is the focus of this episode. Jenny's a HUGE theatre nerd, so it may not be surprising that this comes up in the later part of the show.

You can now buy us a coffee if you enjoy our episodes - https://www.buymeacoffee.com/benjaminsbritain

We'd love you to subscribe and rate us on when you listen to your favourite podcasts. Follow us at @benjaminsbritainpod on Instagram for social content and updates.

Transcript

00:00:00 Ben

Since 2016, I've been on a mission to visit every site described in the book Landmarks of Britain with 500 places that made our history.

00:00:08 Ben

In this podcast, we'll be discussing the castles, caves, cathedrals and country homes visited along the way with those who have joined me. As always, I'm here with Nicky Pavitt. Hello, hello.

00:00:21 Ben

How are you Nicky?

00:00:23 Nicky

I'm very well. I'm excited to introduce today's guest.

00:00:27 Ben

Go on, tell us who's up today.

00:00:30 Nicky

Today's guest is no other than my sister Jenny

00:00:33 Ben

No way double Pavitts today.

00:00:36 Nicky

I know it's gonna be crazy and she will probably say that I've coerced her into all of these things, but you.

00:00:43 Nicky

Know it's all good.

00:00:44 Ben

No no no no no.

00:00:45 Ben

She's loved it, I mean.

00:00:48 Ben

As you'll hear she was living in an

00:00:50 Ben

Area with lots of landmarks which were quite out of the way for us, so it was.

00:00:53 Ben

It was very convenient. It all worked out nicely

00:00:56 Nicky

Exactly, but yeah, it's a it's a fun episode. It's one for the theatre nerds and the northerners.

00:01:04 Ben

Yeah, shout out to our Northern fans this this.

00:01:05 Ben

One is for you.

00:01:07 Nicky

And we we had some.

00:01:09 Nicky

Really good feedback on our.

00:01:10 Nicky

First episode this season. It was by.

00:01:14 Nicky

The most successful in the first week or two that we've ever had.

00:01:20 Ben

Chris Jones on Brunel's Thames Tunnel. Water reaction. People loved it and it was great for us that more people are listening to the podcast than ever before, so happy days.

00:01:31 Ben

A future guest on the pod even told us that they were inspired by the podcast that we did with Chris and wants to go visit the Thames Tunnel herself.

00:01:38 Ben

And that's exactly what we want from these episodes is for people to go and appreciate and enjoy these sites just like we have so very happy with that. But yeah, Jenny, Alternative Landmark is a nice one and.

00:01:50 Ben

Definitely would love to go there with you and.

00:01:52 Ben

Your sister, at some point in the future.

00:01:54 Speaker 3

Yeah, yeah.

00:01:54 Ben

Because there's always an.

00:01:57 Ben

Excuse to go to this particular place.

00:01:58 Nicky

Let's book tickets.

00:02:00

Is that a spoiler alert?

00:02:02 Ben

Spoiler alert.

00:02:04 Ben

Because actually I have started doing a lot of our guests alternative landmarks with them, and that's quite fun.

00:02:10 Ben

Uhm, so you know, on my way to complete that set as well.

00:02:13 Nicky

Great, well, I think we should get straight to it.

00:02:17 Ben

Cool, hope you enjoy.

00:02:24 Speaker 4

Come right along Benjamin Britain, get to know the places and spaces around you.

00:02:34 Ben

Welcome back to the Benjamin Britain Podcast. For those who are new to what we're doing, this is the podcast where we explore all the sites in Clive.

00:02:43 Ben

Aslett's the 500 landmarks of Britain, a book which I have been the last five years visiting every site that's included inside it, and we invite different guests on the podcast or have been visiting these landmarks with this.

00:02:54 Ben

To discuss them, and Nicky, who's our guest this week?

00:02:58 Nicky

Well, our guest this week is someone I know quite well. Ben better than you actually, which is, it's rare for this podcast, but as your your mom and your brother had been on before we thought it was only fair that we should have the only other Pavitt to have gone to any of Ben's landmarks.

00:03:19 Nicky

And that is my sister Jenny hey hello.

00:03:21 Ben

Welcome, Jenny.

00:03:24 Nicky

Could be on the podcast.

00:03:26 Nicky

Yeah, you are. There's lots of people dying to be on it, so yeah, you are very lucky.

00:03:30 Ben

There is a long list of people who do want to be on it in Venice. Jenny, we're delighted to have you.

00:03:36 Nicky

Privileged position.

00:03:36 Jenny

I'm right after the big league.

00:03:38 Nicky

Mm-hmm, so I know Jenny because we were, you know, forced together by our genetic code.

00:03:47 Ben

He didn't have a choice.

00:03:49 Nicky

Yeah, I mean I.

00:03:50 Nicky

Seven and a half, seven and three quarter.

00:03:53 Nicky

Perfect life without her.

00:03:57 Nicky

And then she came along and took my bedroom.

00:04:02 Nicky

Obviously Jenny this is a history podcast. It is and I have talked many, many times about our various day trips that Dad has had to drag us on when we were kids.

00:04:14 Nicky

I mean when?

00:04:15 Nicky

You were a kid. I was like a teenager so it's kind of a bit different, but I don't know. I'm wondering whether you had any specific.

00:04:22 Nicky

Memories of historical trips we had when we.

00:04:25 Nicky

Younger I don't know. I feel like I have less of the like remembering going to specific places and more of the like constantly.

00:04:34 Nicky

Being aware of Dad having random documentaries on all the time or like going into your bedroom and you had written like the date of something in the Vietnam War on your bin.

00:04:48 Ben

Did that work as revision?

00:04:50 Nicky

The Tet Offensive 1968.

00:04:52 Nicky

Wait, yeah.

00:04:54 Jenny

I think is it you tell me it's. Is it still there? I can't see it at the moment. I mean if there's it's beteta fence. If is in 1968, the answer is yes, it did work.

00:05:05 Nicky

I'm going to Google it.

00:05:07 Jenny

But yeah, I just remember it was when I ended up getting to a level history and we got to the Tet offensive. My only association with the offensive been.

00:05:16 Nicky

I was right.

00:05:16 Ben

Nikki holding up a phone it is 1968.

00:05:18 Nicky

See it worked right. It was perfect revision. She's just a shame it didn't do very.

00:05:23 Nicky

Well on that exam.

00:05:24 Jenny

But anyway, I felt like my childhood like.

00:05:27 Jenny

History associations are like.

00:05:29 Jenny

You and you and Mike just like doing history revision and me hearing random things I think was probably what a lot of it was.

00:05:37 Ben

Because because Jenny, you know Nikki has been to almost every site in my book without me because her story always is. My dad took me here when I was a kid, but maybe yeah.

00:05:49 Nicky

When I was.

00:05:50 Nicky

A kid though. That's the thing Jenny doesn't remember 'cause she was like, a basically an amoeba at that point

00:05:57 Nicky

So you don't have that many memories of actual historical landmarks as a kid.

00:06:01 Jenny

Not loads, no. That is a real shame, no. I have a few like with Granny and Granddad. Oh yeah, go on, I feel like they've taken me to some like I feel like National Trust kind of kind of houses type thing.

00:06:15 Ben

It is mostly Granny and Grandads who have National Trust memberships apart from me, but just bring it bringing down the average age of your national.

00:06:22 Ben

Trust member yeah yeah.

00:06:24 Nicky

So you can't remember a single place you went to as a kid.

00:06:27 Jenny

I don't know. I mean, I just. I mean I do remember Granny and Granddad taking me to the globe like half term or something, and that's like my kind of pilgrimage

00:06:36 Nicky

Image so, uh, that explains it. This is probably a good point to explain that Jenny didn't study history. Do you only have?

00:06:45 Ben

That's excuse me.

00:06:46 Nicky

I know, I know.

00:06:49 Jenny

I went for just plain old English literature.

00:06:53 Nicky

And then you're currently studying at the moment, aren't.

00:06:55 Jenny

You I am.

00:06:56 Jenny

Theatre and performance studies.

00:06:58 Nicky

Ooh edgy, and that explains the the love of the globe exact.

00:07:02 Nicky

Exactly, do you care about history? Do you like history?

0:7:34 Jenny Yeah, I do. I did it up to a level and I think also the English lit and also the theatre vibe we always have. Like the underlying history as well.

00:07:16 Ben

So when you, when you heard that your big sister was studying history at university, did you not think Oh my God, that is so cool.

00:07:23 Ben

That is exactly what I want to do when.

00:07:25 Ben

I grow up, but.

00:07:26 Ben

She you weren't quite inspired in there.

00:07:29 Jenny

I feel like it more in some ways has the opposite effect of being like. Let me do the opposite to what my siblings are.

00:07:35 Nicky

Doing the opposite would have been maths

00:07:38 Jenny

Yeah, but none of us are like that way inclined.

00:07:41 Nicky

Excuse me, I love maths.

00:07:46 Ben

Thank God you didnt Study math.

00:07:47 Ben

Nikki, our paths would never have crossed to be studied maths but that.

00:07:50 Nicky

They might have done.

00:07:51 Ben

Would be a disaster.

00:07:52 Nicky

But probably not well.

00:07:54 Nicky

I'd have a math podcast instead.

00:07:57 Ben

Nikki numbers

00:07:58 Nicky

Wow, I'd be like Rachel.

00:08:00 Nicky

Rachel Riley, but like less good significantly.

00:08:06 Nicky

And so Jen, do you have a favourite period of history?

00:08:10 Jenny

I mean, I did a lot of Victorian stuff, a lot of Victorian politics are quite like that. 'cause I think it's also like Dickens era for me is quite nice when stuff starts to get a bit more like meaty and they're all having loads of depressing problems which are quite fun to write about, of course.

00:08:30 Jenny

So yeah, I'm like Victorian era is good and then Cold War. I feel like is also a awesome uh classic. Oh, I feel like that's quite a common favourite.

00:08:39 Nicky

Is this because you like the musical Chess?

00:08:42 Nicky

No, but I was a bonus because I swear everything you like. It revolves around whether it's got a musical, so it will work both ways.

00:08:50 Jenny

It's either I like that period of history, more 'cause there's a musical, or I get really excited 'cause there's a musical about something I already like. Hence the fact my undergrad disc was about. Oliver makes sense.

00:09:01 Ben

No, it wasn't, that's amazing.

00:09:04 Jenny

It was Oliver and Matilda.

00:09:06 Ben

You had a cool dissertation. What were?

00:09:08 Ben

You exploring and there was those productions.

00:09:10 Jenny

Basically, just like the idea, the theme of childhoods but then also how like the books are, adapt how they're adapted from being booked into being musicals and like what that changes with them basically, and then Henry bird from Bake Off who was in my year at Zara on my course, did his dissertation a year after me and.

00:09:30 Jenny

Copy me.

00:09:32 Nicky

He actually did and then Matilda. The musical poetry posted about it on Instagram and Jenny was furious. Absolutely raging.

00:09:41 Jenny

He posted about his.

00:09:42 Jenny

Dissertation and then literally everybody I knew suddenly messaged me and was like Oh my God. Henry's copied your dissertation plagiarism.

00:09:50 Ben

This is the platform to.

00:09:51 Ben

Call him out. Finally, we can. We can expose him.

00:09:55 Jenny

Yeah, so Henry bird. I really hope he cited me 'cause I I laid all the groundwork for making the department happy for you to do a dissertation about that.

00:10:03 Nicky

Oh God, that's funny.

00:10:05 Nicky

OK.

00:10:06 Nicky

Hopefully he didn't plagiarise, but still.

00:10:07 Ben

It's just this is going to be on the Daily Mail when this the day after.

00:10:10 Ben

This podcast comes out.

00:10:11 Nicky

Love it.

00:10:14 Nicky

So we've covered the fact that you don't remember any historical trips when you were a kid. Great.

00:10:20 Jenny

'cause they all got done with.

00:10:21 Jenny

You first, yeah.

00:10:23 Ben

Yeah, yeah. Nicky Nicky soaked soaked up all your dad's enthusiasm.

00:10:30 Nicky

You just got left with the dregs of the things that dad didn't like.

00:10:35 Nicky

Exactly, we've covered that you don't remember any historical trips that you studied English and not history at little traitor and dumb, but we didn't say where you went to university. Probably is essential. I went to Durham.

00:10:53 Ben

In general, you have you. You've done a few landmarks. You're certainly aware of Benjamin Britain. I mean, but do you remember Nikki saying that, you know we met once when you were about 12 years old and then we re met again when you were about 19, but?

00:11:08 Ben

Here on the Grapevine. About this. Benjamin Britain Historic landmark activity that that Nikki was was starting to enjoy quite a lot.

00:11:15 Jenny

I had and I think my main association is just how competitive Nicki is.

00:11:21 Jenny

And then it got to the point where she was talking about this. Well, one of my friends is on this number and if they do those ones, then they're gonna take over me. So I need to make sure that I get these ones done.

00:11:32 Ben

Jenny, I can confirm that nothing has changed.

00:11:35 Ben

That is still Nicky's attitude.

00:11:36 Nicky

This is absolute slander.

00:11:38 Ben

So good your impression of it was pure competition. There's someone to beat here. There's there's a prize to.

00:11:44 Ben

Be won and.

00:11:45 Jenny

Yeah, no sense of like cultural enrichment or anything.

00:11:51 Ben

I like this character so.

00:11:51 Nicky

I'm the one that did a history degree.

00:11:53 Ben

I can recall, but can you recall Jenny what your first, the first landmark that you were dragged along to was?

00:11:59 Jenny

Yes, and I think drag dragged is a good way to say it. 'cause I was fully coerced into this.

00:12:05 Jenny

And as we all are just to set the same, Nikki and I were going on holiday the next day.

00:12:05 Ben

It's good.

00:12:06

It's just.

00:12:13 Jenny

I was sat on the train with a massive half empty suitcase ready for Nikki to put all of her stuff into and at which point Nikki messages me and goes. Do you want to come to a historical site with me and my friends?

00:12:26 Jenny

At which point no choice, because if I play no Nick, he's gonna bully me into submission.

00:12:35 Jenny

So I agree, and aside from the ones I've heard, that electric like a tree in the middle of a field, I think it has to be better than that

00:12:43 Ben

Obviously Nikki would have told you about that one.

00:12:46 Jenny

I think it has to be up there with being possibly one of the worst ones that must be.

00:12:52 Jenny

And 'cause it was electric Ave.

00:12:56 Nicky

In Brixton and was literally just like a sign.

00:13:00 Ben

Yeah it that that what a poor introduction to the world of landmarks for you, Jenny, I'm so sorry.

00:13:06 Jenny

It was I. It's quite surprising I've done more since.

00:13:10 Ben

Electric Ave we should say is an amazing place but.

00:13:14 Ben

In terms of.

00:13:15 Ben

What we were.

00:13:15 Ben

There you know.

00:13:16 Ben

For historical landmark sightings.

00:13:18 Ben

We did literally just find a street sign and take a picture and we didn't. We didn't fully.

00:13:22 Ben

Embrace the history.

00:13:24 Nicky

Yeah, I mean there's a lot to be said about Brixton and its history, and that could be a whole probably a whole podcast in itself, just about Brixton. But Electric Ave itself is famous because it was the 1st St that had St lights.

00:13:37 Ben

Correct, and was there a street light in our photo?

00:13:41 Nicky

I don't know, but they I know now there's like rainbow coloured lights which are quite cool along the streets. It's very interesting and in cool place to to be.

00:13:51 Ben

But I like a landmark where we spend more time in the pub than at the landmark. That's that's.

00:13:56 Ben

A big assist.

00:13:56 Nicky

Always, yeah we were in a Prince of Wales, weren't we?

00:14:00 Nicky

Yeah, which we all know that.

00:14:01 Nicky

Then loves anything called the Prince of Wales.

00:14:05 Ben

Any practical difference fails. We can't walk past.

00:14:07 Ben

It we've got.

00:14:07 Ben

To go in, yeah.

00:14:11 Nicky

Right, so Jen, you have told us that you went to Durham. You told us about your first landmark trip, but that means you've been to more.

00:14:18 Nicky

And that means you didn't choose Electric Ave for your historical landmark to discuss today, so could you tell us what you have?

00:14:26 Jenny

Reason I've actually chosen somewhere that I went to in my.

00:14:29 Jenny

First week of.

00:14:30 Jenny

University as every Durham University student does. And that is Durham cathedral.

00:14:35 Ben

Excellent choice.

00:14:37 Nicky

So why did you choose it?

00:14:39 Jenny

The thing I have now realised and I think I properly realised this over the summer.

00:14:44 Jenny

That I have been spoilt by Durham Cathedral, oh.

00:14:48 Jenny

Because I've been in a lot of times you.

00:14:48 Ben

Right?

00:14:51 Jenny

Go in your first week at university, 'cause that's where you have.

00:14:55 Jenny

What they call your like matriculation ceremony. So it's you like formally joining the university for the first time, right?

00:15:02 Jenny

And then anytime anyone comes to visit you, it's basically like a compulsory thing and you have to take Cathedral. Yep.

00:15:11 Speaker 3

Of course.

00:15:15 Jenny

So I've been in there many many times.

00:15:19 Jenny

And what I've now realised is that I'm almost incapable of appreciating other cathedrals.

00:15:25 Jenny

Oh, because this one so great exactly.

00:15:30 Jenny

I went to.

00:15:32 Jenny

Norwich over the summer and I said oh go.

00:15:35 Jenny

To Norwich cathedral.

00:15:37 Jenny

And then I went in and I was like... I mean.

00:15:43 Jenny

It's it's nice.

00:15:44 Ben

So you're such a cathedral snob now?

00:15:47 Nicky

Yeah, that's what Durham does too.

00:15:51 Speaker 3

Ha ha.

00:15:51 Nicky

Turns you into a snob??

00:15:54 Nicky

Oh, I see.

00:15:56 Jenny

It is, it's just a top notch cathedral and.

00:16:00 Jenny

It also has benefits other cathedrals don't.

00:16:05 Jenny

I mean its relevance within popular culture.

00:16:09 Jenny

It is also great attraction and being in two major film franchises.

00:16:10 Speaker 3

OK.

00:16:15 Nicky

So I feel like that bumps it up quite a.

00:16:18 Nicky

Lot to begin with.

00:16:19 Ben

It's always always good when a landmark pops up in a film. It's now a particular excitement to me.

00:16:26 Nicky

And do you know what they the?

00:16:28 Nicky

The reasons are been.

00:16:29 Nicky

Which films it's been in?

00:16:32 Ben

I well, I know because they're some of the biggest films of all time, right?

00:16:38 Nicky

I think I might have one that you may.

00:16:40 Nicky

Not know about as.

00:16:41 Nicky

Well, I think I know what it is.

00:16:42 Speaker 3

Right?

00:16:43 Ben

Jenny tell us

00:16:45 Jenny

So the two obvious ones? Or is it the first two Harry Potter?

00:16:48 Jenny

Films, yeah.

00:16:50 Jenny

Huh, so it was mcgonagall's classroom. It was also the Forbidden corridor in their first year as well.

00:17:00 Jenny

So classic classic scenes, but also more recently, and this is quite upsetting because I missed out on potentially bumping into this famous actor, or about six months five months.

00:17:16 Jenny

Chris Hemsworth has been too damn.

00:17:18 Jenny

Clean yeah yes.

00:17:21 Jenny

Because it featured in Avengers end game as well, oh.

00:17:24 Ben

Yes, but just which is the biggest film.

00:17:27 Ben

Of all time.

00:17:29 Nicky

Exactly so.

00:17:33 Jenny

Yeah, what location prime location? Apparently it just had very nice nice pillars.

00:17:40 Ben

Yeah, so Marvel fans listening. It's the but it's the scenes when Thor goes.

00:17:44 Ben

Back to Asgard.

00:17:45 Ben

And yeah, those pillars in the shot are instantly recognisable as down cathedral because.

00:17:51 Jenny

High high quality pillars.

00:17:51 Ben

They've got these.

00:17:53 Ben

The finest quality buildings that they've got, like zigzag shapes on them don't? They jet and it's the only place I've seen that particular pattern on a on a cathedral pillar. It's Durham. It just screams diagram.

00:17:58 Speaker 3

They did.

00:18:06 Jenny

It's one of the only Marvel films.

00:18:08 Jenny

I have seen.

00:18:09 Ben

It's actually a terrible one to start with because it's like this, yeah?

00:18:11 Nicky

Yes, it is the end.

00:18:13 Jenny

It makes no sense.

00:18:16

I think it took us to.

00:18:17 Ben

Where the Great Hall in Harry Potter is right?

00:18:19 Ben

Or am I making that up? There was definitely some durhams full of Harry Potter filming locations.

00:18:24 Ben

Isn't isn't it?

00:18:24 Jenny

So it was originally they were going to film the Great Hall in 'cause Darren split up into different colleges so they were going down the Great Hall in University College, which is literally Durham Castle. And they were gonna film the Great Hall there. But yeah, university timetabling clashed.

00:18:32 Speaker 3

Right?

00:18:33 Nicky

Wingardium Leviosa

00:18:44 Jenny

With filming, yeah.

00:18:45 Jenny

So had it not been for students actually needing to use their dining room, and that would have also been in the.

00:18:51 Nicky

In the Harry Potter films.

00:18:53 Ben

That is such a mistake on the part of the university administrator.

00:18:58 Ben

What years were you at Durham University?

00:19:00 Jenny

2017 to 2020. So it was an unfortunate end.

00:19:03 Ben

That's right.

00:19:05 Nicky

Yeah, because there should have been one more occasion where you went to the cathedral. Is that not right?

00:19:12 Jenny

This is just like the slight bitter resentment I currently have, which is the only.

00:19:17 Jenny

Thing that is dampening my love.

00:19:19 Jenny

For Durham Cathedral the fact that I should have had.

00:19:21 Jenny

A graduation ceremony there I.

00:19:23 Ben

Oh no.

00:19:24 Jenny

I am now a third of the way through my Masters degree after taking.

00:19:29 Jenny

It year out.

00:19:30 Jenny

And still have not had my graduation.

00:19:33 Ben

Oh no.

00:19:39 Jenny

We're waiting it out.

00:19:40 Nicky

Is it likely to happen?

00:19:43 Jenny

I'm hoping it's still going to happen. I think it's meant to be April.

00:19:48 Jenny

But it was meant to be April I think last year as well. And it.

00:19:51 Jenny

Was also meant.

00:19:52 Jenny

To be September and you know.

00:19:54 Speaker 3

OK.

00:19:55 Jenny

French has been a lot of date.

00:19:56 Ben

Will you return for graduation even though it might be?

00:20:00 Ben

Two years after the fact.

00:20:02 Jenny

Oh absolutely.

00:20:04 Ben

Yes, OK.

00:20:05 Jenny

It's something else just for the fact that I can get great graduation photos out of it.

0:20:10 Nicky

I honestly thought that you're about to say, if only for the fact that I can graduate at a Benjamin Britten landmark.

00:20:18 Jenny

Second, all bragging rights, I mean I.

00:20:19 Speaker 3

I mean.

00:20:20 Ben

That's the dream.

00:20:22 Nicky

Have graduated from a Benjamins Britain landmark. Not quite done Cathedral calibre but the the South Bank centre IN London

00:20:30 Jenny

Assuming I passed my masters. I believe my graduation should also be in the same place, so theoretically I could graduate from two landmarks.

00:20:40 Ben

They're just showing off it.

00:20:43 Jenny

It really puts me in the elite category

0:20:45 my competitiveness is just I know on fire.

00:20:48 Jenny

Well, that's also I need to go back to the cathedral anyway because there is a superstition about the cathedral tower. Oh.

00:20:51 Ben

OK.

00:20:57 Jenny

Where you are not meant to climb the cathedral tower before you graduate.

00:21:03 Jenny

That's me, it's meant.

00:21:04 Jenny

To be bad luck, but obviously I haven't graduated by the point that I moved out, so yeah, I've not. I've not done that yet.

00:21:11 Ben

Never climbed the tower.

00:21:12 Nicky

I I'm thinking like Quasimodo hunchback notch damn climbing up to tower, but I'm assuming what you actually mean is.

00:21:19 Nicky

Up the stairs.

00:21:22 Ben

You thought you meant climbing the outside of the.

00:21:24 Ben

Tower, yeah?

00:21:26 Nicky

Yeah, yeah we.

00:21:28 Jenny

Yeah, we're not scaling like a Norman cathedral.

00:21:32 Jenny

Like you know, like sticky pad vibes.

00:21:35 Ben

But the reason the reason I asked about what years?

00:21:38 Ben

Would you need because?

00:21:40 Ben

Jenny, I started this project in 2016 and then I remember shortly after and then Nicky said, then my sisters at Durham University and we had a we had about a three year window to go and visit the landmarks in and around Durham.

00:21:54 Ben

And yeah, you kindly hosted us in. You would just start at university. I think 'cause I think it was funny.

00:21:59 Ben

2017 that we went to visit.

00:22:01 Nicky

It was 2018.

00:22:03 Ben

It was 18 fine.

00:22:05 Nicky

Durham Cathedral is the only landmark in the book that's in Durham, yeah?

00:22:09

That's the only one.

00:22:10 Ben

Like it's it's a good one. I know Durham is probably.

00:22:13 Ben

Filled with other good historical curiosities and sites.

00:22:16 Nicky

What's the one the thing we went to again, the smallest bar or smallest pub?

00:22:22 Ben

It was and it was tiny.

00:22:24 Ben

And I think I think Alex and I enjoyed laughing because if Nikki and Jenny took, you know two smallish individuals went to the smallest urban England. It would be. It would be like.

00:22:33 Ben

A normal sized pub.

00:22:34 Speaker 3

Ah, I make sure it's like a cupboard with a bar or.

00:22:38 Nicky

Like a small bar.

00:22:40 Jenny

I don't know what you.

00:22:41 Jenny

Mean. Oh the sardines 1.

00:22:43 Nicky

Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah.

00:22:45 Nicky

But well, while.

00:22:46 Nicky

We were there that weekend 'cause Alex was doing like a writing retreat nearby or something so it kind of aligned nicely and so we also went to Newcastle and to Jarrow.

00:22:58 Ben

We did.

00:23:00 Nicky

We went to the the Newest landmark that's in the book.

00:23:04 Nicky

The Millennium Bridge in Newcastle.

00:23:06 Ben

Yes, that's true.

00:23:07 Ben

Opened in the year.

00:23:08 Nicky

2000 the year after Jenny was born, let's just.

00:23:12 Nicky

Put that out there.

00:23:16 Nicky

And then we went to Jarrow, which is kind of linked to why Durham Cathedral is in in the book as well.

00:23:21 Ben

Yeah, that's right, that was a.

00:23:22 Ben

Nice ruined monastery which.

00:23:25 Ben

Always favourites on my.

00:23:26 Nicky

Jenny, do you remember anything about the history of Durham Cathedral on why it might be in Ben's Book?

00:23:32 Jenny

I believe it's because it is because of St Cuthbert

00:23:39 Ben

That's the winner.

00:23:40 Jenny

Got collection of Saints like literally.

00:23:44 Jenny

We've got some cost, but and then I think we've got some. I think Bede is around.

00:23:48 Ben

I think he's think he's buried there too as well.

00:23:52 Jenny

Yeah, and partially this is based on who were all of the Durham colleges named after.

00:23:58 Ben

Oh, interesting.

00:23:58 Jenny

Well, it's always that is the Oh yeah, this isn't a college.

00:24:02 Jenny

And St Cuthbert’s society, actually.

00:24:04 Nicky

Oh, and.

00:24:05 Ben

What did this think after society?

00:24:07 Ben

Get up to.

00:24:09 Jenny

They just live in a nicer bit of Durham than what I did they.

00:24:12 Jenny

Get to live in like the nice traditional bit right by the right by the cathedral. Whereas I lived in a nice like, you know, 60s architecture.

00:24:21 Ben

Something something.

00:24:21 Jenny

And then you've also got the College of Saint Hilda and St Bede as well.

00:24:25 Nicky

It makes sense.

00:24:28 Nicky

St Cuthbert are all the people that are in that part of the university. Are they all loners?

00:24:37 Ben

Why would you assume that?

00:24:40 Nicky

Bear with me.

00:24:42 Nicky

Because St. Cuthbert, who was originally from Throwback to an old podcast, Iona.

00:24:49 Ben

Oh my gosh.

00:24:50 Nicky

He was from Iona and was one of the monks that was told to go from Iona, which we now know from a previous podcast was their Christianity.

00:24:58 Nicky

First came to the Celts, the Scots, so uhm, St cast, but then went to go and live on M.

00:25:04 Ben

Lindisfarne, also a landmark in my book.

00:25:07 Nicky

And then lived basically in solitude as like a hermit on the island, away from all the other monks for like years and years.

00:25:16 Nicky

Yes, and that's why I say those that are at some cost. But society or whatever it is you called it a loners. That's the long story.

00:25:18 Speaker 3

Right?

00:25:28 Jenny

I think they made may be offended by that.

00:25:32 Ben

Yeah, you want them to be living in like individual cells of rooms. Don't don't you meditating and praying eight times a day.

00:25:39 Ben

And yeah, battles of celibacy 2.

00:25:42 Nicky

I believe that he the reason why he was a St is because he basically was like.

00:25:47 Nicky

So holy because he just kind of sat by himself and prayed like all day and eventually became the Bishop of Lindisfarne.

00:25:54 Jenny

Sounds about right.

00:25:58 Ben

Hold on Jenny.

00:25:58 Ben

I'm sure we would have discussed this.

00:26:00 Ben

On the day, and.

00:26:01 Ben

That's like as as a as.

00:26:03 Ben

A durham student.

00:26:04 Ben

You know this wasn't part of your entry exam surely was the the history of the cathedral and good old. St Cuthbert, right?

00:26:11 Ben

Here was a.

00:26:11 Ben

Bit of a a legend in the northeast when it comes to Saints he is apparently.

00:26:15 Nicky

Like the main man, yeah. And and he was living at around six hundreds.

00:26:22 Ben

So we're.

00:26:23 Nicky

Talking quite a long time.

00:26:24 Nicky

Ago, but jenjen. Do you have any idea why St Cuthbert is now in Durham but his body his remains?

00:26:32 Jenny

I have no idea

00:26:35 Ben

We appreciate the honesty.

00:26:38 Nicky

Basically the the Vikings kept raiding Lindisfarne.

00:26:44 Nicky

We're talking decades, decades, and decades of just raiding islands and just causing like total menace basically to every all the monks, yeah and so eventually they would fight so fed up that they ended up leaving the islands and coming to the mainland and then eventually sort of they. They found a few places around the north where they settled.

00:26:52 Ben

Damn Vikings.

00:27:04 Nicky

And then moved again and then eventually settled in this place, but then became Durham.

00:27:10 Nicky

And they built this city.

00:27:12 Nicky

Let shrined sync off. He'd already died by this point. I should point.

00:27:15 Nicky

Out and his.

00:27:16 Nicky

His remain to like special and and the actual phrase they used was incorrupted.

00:27:24 Ben

His body wasn't corrupted.

00:27:25 Nicky

His body is incorrupted. Any guesses to what that means?

00:27:30 Ben

Well, there was, monks were celibate, weren't they? So?

00:27:34 Ben

But your reference to that.

00:27:35 Nicky

Is it is not, but I like your thinking.

00:27:38 Nicky

It basically means that 11 years after he died, they looked back in his coffin again and he hadn't decomposed.

00:27:47 Ben

It's a miracle there.

00:27:48 Jenny

Surely opening up that coffin would be a way to ensure that would happen? Yeah, probably.

00:27:53 Ben

It's a very good point.

00:27:55 Nicky

Just like let's have a.

00:27:55 Nicky

Look, see what's going on.

00:27:57 Ben

Yeah, people still there.

00:27:58 Ben

He did beat up there, he.

00:28:00

Is so you.

00:28:00 Nicky

Know when you get like those those bodies, that kind of go right, waxy rather than they do decompose.

00:28:05 Nicky

Apparently it was a miracle. Yeah, it's solidified him as a St. Basically, at the time we're talking like 900 by the time like Durham really.

00:28:13 Nicky

Kind of kicks off.

00:28:14 Nicky

They used some remains as a pilgrimage spot for Christians around the country to come to visit, particularly north.

00:28:24 Nicky

I also find it's quite fascinating that what they would do sometimes is take like the remains of Saints.

00:28:30 Nicky

On road shows around the country.

00:28:34 Nicky

To raise money for.

00:28:35 Ben

Front or.

00:28:35 Nicky

Yeah my son to raise money for their their cathedral building, which anyone that's read pillars of the earth.

00:28:42 Ben

Yeah I was.

00:28:43 Ben

Just gonna say definitely about playing pillars of.

00:28:45 Ben

The Earth, which is our.

00:28:45 Ben

Reference point for all things monastic.

00:28:48 Nicky

Yeah, to raise money for your church cathedral building, you take your monks on tour and then people pay to like see the Saints body and stuff.

00:28:57 Nicky

So that is basically what funded a large part of Durham Cathedral

00:29:00 Jenny

Which is actually still free to enter. I think it's by like recommended donation, I think.

00:29:06 Ben

The medieval monks be furious. It could think if it was such a money maker and now they list letting people in for.

00:29:11 Ben

Free

00:29:12 Jenny

Yeah, they were. They were going on massive long tours and now it's just.

00:29:16 Jenny

Like any old.

00:29:17 Jenny

Riff Raff in yeah exactly mean. Ben. Like what?

00:29:21

We did up there.

00:29:22 Speaker 3

Yeah, I'm.

00:29:23 Ben

The site that they you know buried guff, but that's that's the site that Durham grew out of, right? That's where today's cathedral is, and the town grew up around that cathedral.

00:29:35 Ben

Jenny, you have. You have to. Thanks for you know your university education is the mediaeval monks of Lindisfarne. Otherwise there will be no university for you to know town for you to be living in.

00:29:46 Jenny

I might have had to go to Exeter.

00:29:49 Nicky

Imagine how disgusting that would be.

00:29:52 Ben

That I learned that.

00:29:56 Ben

The cathedral we see today was built only in a period of 40 years, which for cathedrals is pretty damn rapid and.

00:30:06 Ben

The Normans built it in.

00:30:08 Ben

You got the 1100s around that period and it pretty much still exists today as.

00:30:12 Ben

It did then, which is remarkable.

00:30:14 Ben

And my first memory of Durham Cathedral, which it's going to be for a lot of people. Maybe you 2 Jenny on that snowy first day, because when you step off the train back.

00:30:23 Ben

Form at Durham.

00:30:25 Ben

Boom, the cathedral is just it just dominates your view. Your eye is immediately drawn to it and it's almost raised up on a hill.

00:30:31 Ben

That's what it feels like anyway, yeah, and it's it's stunning. The way it overlooks the town and it must look even lighter with snow.

00:30:38 Jenny

And snow it is gorgeous. Going back to all of the Harry Potter references.

00:30:43 Jenny

The way people describe it, it is that like when you come off on the train and you see the cathedral out the window, it's like the going back to Hogwarts and saying the castle again, kind of.

00:30:55 Ben

I see that.

00:30:56 Jenny

Yeah, I was like oh, I know I know that I'm home now, uh, because I can see the cathedral again.

00:31:01 Ben

You know, I guess the monks at the time and the bishops would have wanted the cathedral to take her breath away a little bit, and it still has that effect.

00:31:08 Ben

It, especially the.

00:31:09 Ben

Way it rises over the rest of the room. I I did also read that the university itself was founded by one of the bishops of Durham.

00:31:18 Ben

In 1832

00:31:21 Jenny

Who I believe is my favourite Archbishop

00:31:23 Nicky

Favourite Archbishop.?

00:31:26 Ben

We all have our Favourite Bishop

00:31:29 Jenny

If I'm correct, is Archbishop William van Mildert?

00:31:32 Ben

That's correct, so it's let me guess is there.

00:31:35 Ben

A college named after him.

00:31:37 Jenny

That is, can you guess which college I went to? Yes, the college that has a lake that is sometimes described as a swamp.

00:31:41 Ben

With yours.

00:31:46 Ben

Oh, lovely lovely yeah.

00:31:48 Jenny

Well, apparently used to get thrown into on their birthdays.

00:31:51 Ben

Did did this not happen to you?

00:31:52 Speaker 3

OK.

00:31:53 Jenny

No 'cause legend has it. But if you get thrown in you.

00:31:56 Jenny

Need to have a tetanus jab.

00:32:01 Ben

You know the students have really ruined Durham

00:32:04 Ben

If that's the case.

00:32:07 Speaker 3

I agree.

00:32:09 Ben

You guys heard about the Saint, the miracles of St Cuthbert.

00:32:13 Nicky

I have not.

00:32:13 Ben

Well, he has survived. Apparently his bones are still buried in Durham Cathedral.

00:32:19 Nicky

Yeah Right?

00:32:19 Speaker 3

But that it.

00:32:20 Ben

If that is true, it means it survived.

00:32:24 Ben

Henry the eighth reformation where Monastries absolutely all over the country was torn down and their Saints, relics and bones were destroyed.

00:32:33 Ben

But somehow Cuthbert and his tomb survived that, which is impressive. But ever heard of Jenny ever heard of Cuthbert's mist?

00:32:41 Nicky

That sounds gross.

00:32:44 Jenny

I feel like I'm it might trigger a vague memory.

00:32:47 Ben

It's not, yeah, yeah. It does sound gross, but apparently Durham was the target of Nazi bombing.

00:32:54 Ben

As one of those, you know how they would try to bomb sites of cultural value, not no strategic benefit, just to demoralise the nation.

00:33:04 Ben

But the night they were meant to bomb the.

00:33:06 Ben

Durham and the.

00:33:07 Ben

Cathedral, a mist descended at sorry, ascended above Durham so the Luftwaffe pilots couldn't see what they were doing is they had to.

00:33:15 Ben

And not drop their bombs on Durham. And that saved the cathedral from Nazi bombing and it was called.

00:33:20 Ben

Plus yeah, Cuthbert's mist.

00:33:22 Ben

They named it because they thought it was good old. St. Cuthbert still.

00:33:24 Jenny

Setting up a language.

00:33:26 Ben

Still looking after the people of.

00:33:27 Ben

Durham 1000 years later.

00:33:34 Jenny

Looking at or just entirely selfish motivation and saying I've managed to stay in this cathedral for this long. You're not getting.

00:33:42 Ben

Yeah, yeah yourself. Reservation from government.

00:33:42 Jenny

Rid of me.

00:33:47 Nicky

I know that lots of people used to fake relics and like make make them up. In actual fact, there's a Blackadder season one.

00:33:56 Nicky

Yeah, I know no one seen it and season one episode where they just like make a load of relics and just sell them. So I find it very hard to believe that any or many.

00:34:06 Nicky

Of them are real.

00:34:08 Nicky

But I mean, the mist is pretty compelling.

00:34:11 Ben

You got it going, mist.

00:34:12 Nicky

Strong stuff.

00:34:13 Ben

Since 2017, we must have missed it, but apparently you can go down Cathedral and actually see fragments of Cuthbert.

00:34:21 Ben

's original 8th century prophet wooden coffin, that's cool. It's called the same colour but still has that sway over their own cathedral. They love him.

00:34:30 Nicky

I don't remember seeing that.

00:34:31 Ben

No me neither.

00:34:33

This is.

00:34:33 Ben

Going to sound awful that.

00:34:34 Ben

I, and Nicky has as well, but we've been to so many cathedrals and when you're there in the moment, they're majestic and beautiful and actually breathtaking. But they do start to blend into each other really. Unfortunately, all these amazing cathedrals.

00:34:50 Jenny

I will stand strong for Durham Cathedral being.

00:34:53 Jenny

Up there among.

00:34:54 Jenny

The best.

00:34:55 Ben

You'll defend it.

00:34:56 Jenny

But that is the proverbial hill I'm willing to die on the literal hill that the cathedral is on.

00:35:01 Ben

It's literally OK, Jenny. We ask every guest on the podcast to rate the historical landmark they've brought to our attention. Jenny, we're gonna ask you to rate out of 10 Durham Cathedral.

00:35:13 Ben

Firstly, its historical significance.

00:35:16 Jenny

I feel like historical significance would have to go at least for.

00:35:19 Jenny

Like a strong seven.

00:35:21 Speaker 3

OK.

00:35:21 Jenny

'cause if you're talking like.

00:35:23 Jenny

Foundings of Christianity, that relatively fundamental and then also from a selfish point of view, when that leads into the founding of one of the best universities in the country.

00:35:35 Jenny

That has to put it out.

00:35:36 Jenny

There, so I'm gonna yeah I'm gonna give.

00:35:37 Nicky

It a 7 and she said I was contested.

00:35:42 Ben

OK nice nice.

00:35:44 Ben

The second rating. We'd like you to give it Jenny is out.

00:35:47 Ben

Of town for its fun factor of.

00:35:50 Ben

Spending a day visiting.

00:35:52 Ben

The beauty that is Dark Cathedral.

00:35:54 Jenny

I'm toying between A6 and A7 because I feel like other than the sort of.

00:36:00 Jenny

My beloved cultural facts about Durham Cathedral.

00:36:04 Jenny

At the end of the day, I acknowledge that it is another cathedral.

00:36:09 Ben

Ha ha.

00:36:10 Jenny

So arguably, to balance out my very high thoughts for the next category. Uhm, I'm gonna. I'm gonna go with the six I think for fun factor.

00:36:20 Ben

Nice, I mean I'm a big fan of listing cathedrals full stop so I would knock it up a few points.

00:36:26 Ben

More than the average person.

00:36:28 Ben

And you can't pretend to be professor.

00:36:30 Ben

Snape, which helps so six is good.

00:36:31 Jenny

Yeah, that's quite fun. Yeah, I like how afterwards we went to a really cool gin bar.

00:36:37 Ben

Yes, I remember that that was great.

00:36:41 Ben

It was one of those places which.

00:36:42 Ben

Had which had.

00:36:43 Ben

Hundreds of gins to choose from, right?

00:36:45 Ben

Which is fun.

00:36:47 Jenny

Like even Nikki was overwhelmed, I was.

00:36:49

Like whoa.

00:36:51 Nicky

So many mixers.

00:36:54 Ben

And Jenny out of 10 inster worthiness. This is how photogenic Durham federal is Theo Instagram post.

00:37:03 Nicky

I'm going to give it a 9 'cause I don't know.

00:37:05 Ben

No, it's fine, it's fine.

00:37:06 Jenny

I I don't. I don't know if anything.

00:37:09 Jenny

Can be considered a perfect for that, but if you're looking at somewhere where you can get.

00:37:15 Jenny

Harry Potter style pictures. You can have Marvel themed pictures and just pictures of genuine historical beauty. Durham has a range for every or Durham Cathedral has arranged for everyone and so I don't really know if you can get much better than that. Then kind of that combination.

00:37:33 Nicky

Seems fair.

00:37:33 Ben

Damn it you've sold me. You sold me completely on that night.

00:37:35 Nicky

You can be basic, but you can also be historical

00:37:42 Jenny

and religious and religious.

00:37:43 Ben

The Holy Trinity

00:37:50 Ben

OK, this is our favourite part of podcast and for the first time ever I know something which Nicky doesn't. Going into this segment because we always ask our guests to bring to the podcast a historical landmark.

00:38:03 Ben

Off their Rd, which doesn't already feature in my.

00:38:05 Ben

Book and normally they tell Nikki in advance, but this time I've got the dirt Jenny over to you. Can you introduce us to your guest alternative landmark please?

00:38:17 Jenny

Now to Nikki. I don't actually think in the end this would be overly surprising at all, OK?

00:38:24 Jenny

Because we we have established what my primary interests are so.

00:38:30 Nicky

That I thought I would go down so when you said before about oh are you gonna pick the globe and all this?

00:38:36 Jenny

The thing I have not picked the globe oh I have picked the Theatre Royal Drury Lane.

00:38:40Nicky

I knew you were gonna pick Drury Lane.

00:38:46 Ben

We should have asked you.

00:38:47 Nicky

Oh, I would have guessed it was something to do with Drury Lane. I wouldn't have guessed which bit in.

00:38:52 Jenny

Particular, but there are a lot.

00:38:53 Speaker 3

OK.

00:38:53 Jenny

There are a lot of fun facts that you're not going to expect about this

00:38:57 Nicky

I know Nothing nothing.

00:38:59 Ben

Jenny, we've obviously established your massive theatre geek, which we love. Make make the case for the Theatre Royal Injury Lake, which is in London. If you. If our listeners didn't know.

00:39:08 Jenny

Yeah, just by just by Covent Garden. First off, the theatre itself makes the claim that it is actually the oldest theatre site in continuous use.

00:39:18 Nicky

In the world?

00:39:19 Jenny

Oh, that's what they say.

00:39:20 Jenny

Oh wow OK well so yeah it has that to its name. The current theatre is actually the 4th version of the Theatre Royal.

00:39:31 Jenny

Partially occurs at one point it burnt down. Yep, has happened to a lot of theatres. Actually it's a massive problem when they introduced gas lighting in theatres. It just meant loaded them caught fire.

00:39:41 Ben

Oh sugar, yes, that would happen.

00:39:44 Jenny

So slightly slightly sinister. It was also the 1st place where the initial version of the national anthem was played.

00:39:52 Ben

Quite a claim to fame.

00:39:54 Jenny

Also, a sight of a royal assassination attempt.

00:39:58 Ben

Whoa, who did they try and kill?

00:40:00 Jenny

At George the third.

00:40:02 Nicky

Oh, that crazy bastard

00:40:05 Jenny

So yeah, so attempted to attempted to murder George III. There also another king connection. The reason it is the Theatre Royal is it is one of only two theatres that Charles II, when the monarchy was restored gave royal seal of approval to because there is a tunnel.

00:40:25 Jenny

In the theatre, which he allegedly used to meet up with his mistress, Nell Gwyn, who was a who was.

00:40:33 Jenny

So we have many, many layers of historical relevance.

00:40:35 Nicky

You're making the case.

00:40:38 Ben

I've got I've got 1663 as the.

00:40:41 Ben

Year was established.

00:40:42 Nicky

Is that the most recent one?

00:40:49 Jenny

No, the most recent one is 1812 I believe. Oh so they had a a fair few in quick accession.

00:40:53 Ben

But I think I'm right in saying Jenny, that, uh, yeah, Charles's second came onto the throne after Oliver Cromwell, Co were in charge, and did they not ban theatres. So it was quite a big deal that.

00:41:05 Ben

When theatres were brought back.

00:41:05 Jenny

A miserable and miserable time is also when you consider that they banned theatres, got it back, and then the plague happened.

00:41:14 Jenny

So we weren't having a great era for theatre at that point.

00:41:18 Nicky

A bit like now.

00:41:20 Jenny

Yeah topical, yeah.

00:41:22 Ben

And Jenny, why aren't you doing a bit of research about theatres and plagues and pandemics right now?

00:41:28 Jenny

Yes, so attempting to attempting to write an essay about how suited theatre is to kind of dealing with questions of loss, like, particularly in a in a time of pandemic. Kind of looking how theatres adapts and.

00:41:44 Jenny

Kind of responds to like historical.

00:41:47 Ben

Oh please, please go back and find out how Theatre Royal responded to the Great Plague that would be great, yeah?

00:41:52 Jenny

I need to look into this now.

00:41:54 Nicky

Yeah, because if you could find out what they did then maybe you could fix all the theatre problems of the current day.

00:42:01 Jenny

That would make me quite a wealthy person.

00:42:04 Nicky

Yeah, well, you know.

00:42:06 Jenny

Do you happen to know what is on at the?

00:42:07 Jenny

Theatre currently I.

00:42:09 Nicky

Knew that this question was gonna come up.

00:42:13 Nicky

I don't know, but I'm gonna say.

00:42:14 Nicky

It's probably your favourite.

00:42:16 Nicky

Les mis

00:42:18 Jenny

It is not. Oh think, think more adapted animated film which I have watched with you.

00:42:27 Nicky

I know it's.

00:42:27 Nicky

Not The Lion King, 'cause that's a different one, yeah?

00:42:31 Nicky

I don't know. We've seen so many things.

00:42:35 Jenny

I haven't seen the musical with you, but the film I have seen with you so it they had that they had a nice seasonal display in Covent Garden recently.

00:42:45 Nicky

Oh frozen.

00:42:46 Ben

The frozen.

00:42:47 Nicky

Oh, it's frozen.

00:42:48

It's great.

00:42:48 Nicky

Uh oh, got yeah yeah yeah yeah who's the ice queen me or you?

00:42:55 Jenny

I feel like you.

00:43:01 Jenny

She has an agenda.

00:43:03 Nicky

Fair enough, OK? I'll take it.

00:43: 05 Jenny

I'm the annoying younger sister. If like Nikki come and play with me entertain me.

00:43:09 Nicky

It's like no Jenny. I have a job just like no Jenny. I don't want to build a goddamm snowman.

00:43:17 Ben

So Jenny, so oldest.

00:43:19 Ben

Theatre in continuous use.

00:43:22 Ben

So obviously there were all the theatres.

00:43:25 Ben

In the world.

00:43:26 Ben

But this one, because it's been a theatre since the time of King Charles the 2nd.

00:43:31 Ben

It holds that's a pretty special record.

00:43:33 Jenny

Exactly exactly, and I think that's one of the things that has over the other London theatres as well.

00:43:39 Nicky

Is it older than the globe?

00:43:42 Jenny

This is what they have claimed.

00:43:45 Nicky

Oh, but the the the globe that's there now is not the.

00:43:47 Nicky

Load did move and it did move location as well. Oh, this is tenuous.

00:43:52 Ben

It's it's a good. It's a good loop loophole.

00:43:55 Ben

But also the the second globe probably opens much.

00:43:59 Ben

More recently, right?

00:44:01 Ben

I obviously was around in Elizabethan times in its current form, it would have been.

00:44:04 Ben

I don't know.

00:44:05 Ben

How old it's been there, but Theatre Royal and we're going.

00:44:07 Ben

To give Theatre Royal the benefit of the doubt here.

00:44:08 Nicky

Yeah, OK, we'll give it.

00:44:10 Nicky

Give it.

00:44:11 Jenny

There is another point of it though. Nick though I think you would appreciate what's that in that it is also claimed to be one of the most haunted theatres.

00:44:19 Nicky

Now we're talking.

00:44:22 Jenny

So yeah, there are. There are few ghosties here. Apparently, apparently resident there. The main one apparently being the man in Grey and who's meant to be the ghost of a man. They found there with a.

00:44:33 Jenny

Knife through his heart lovely.

00:44:35 Ben

Oh my gosh.

00:44:36 Jenny

So yeah, he's apparently meant to be the main ghost there. The main ghost supposed to be a sign of good luck to the actors if they see one of the ghosts.

00:44:46 Jenny

Which I think is quite it's.

00:44:47 Jenny

Quite sweet.

00:44:48 Nicky

Yeah, I guess I guess that's nice. It's better than being spooked. Have they ever put on a performance of Phantom of the opera or woman in black?

00:44:55 Jenny

I do not believe they have, which I feel like would be a missed opportunity. It is a missed opportunity, although maybe it'll be too. Maybe there'll be too much ghostly stuff going on and it would.

00:45:03 Nicky

Just be.

00:45:04 Jenny

Yeah, the ghosts might start like fighting each other. Yeah, this like ghostly rifle.

00:45:08 Nicky

Great, So what shows? Has it been put on it?

00:45:10Jenny

Had My Fair Lady, which was obviously a huge success at the time they had Oliver there a while ago as well, and Charlie and the Chocolate Factory was there so we're going from some of the like recently. It's been the site of some of the more kind of like kid friendly type musicals.

00:45:28 Jenny

And I won't say they also had Shrek, I think.

00:45:31 Ben

Nice Jenny. Have you have you been to?

00:45:34 Ben

A performance at the Theatre Royal.

00:45:36 Jenny

I have

00:45:37 Ben

Well, do you see Shrek?

00:45:38 Jenny

If only. I saw Oliver in about 2009, I think somewhere around there which evidently inspired me from a from a young age to pursue that as my my dissertation topic.

00:45:45 Ben

Nice nice.

00:45:54 Jenny

Nick, I also have another fun fun question for you, so it was actually in the last couple of years before having frozen.

00:46:02 Jenny

Yeah, yeah, so it was renovated completely.

00:46:07 Jenny

How much do you think that renovation would cost?

00:46:11 Nicky

I don't know. I know these things are quite expensive.

00:46:16 Nicky

£8 million.

00:46:18 Jenny

£60 million.

00:46:19 Ben

60 MO the owner, the owner of the theatre.

00:46:24 Ben

Who would it?

00:46:24 Ben

Might have shelled out that renovation is my favourite musical composer of all time. Because it's Andrew Lloyd Webber absolutely love him and he owns the Theatre Royal today.

00:46:35 Jenny

I I I do enjoy, they enjoy some Lloyd Webber.

00:46:38 Nicky

I feel like this is a good moment to to mention that obviously the theatres have been in quite badly over the last two years.

00:46:46 Nicky

Yes, very true.

00:46:47 Nicky

And actually, at the moment of recording this, a lot of them have been shutting, haven't they?

00:46:53 Nicky

And because the other cast members have all come down with COVID and it's looking not that great, to be honest.

00:46:59 Jenny

An interesting moment for theatre, which is what I would also say as theatres are also some of the places.

00:47:07 Jenny

Where they have their continuing historical relevance, because you can look at whatever the theatre had had on at a certain point and that will tell you something about that.

00:47:16 Jenny

And in time.

00:47:17 Jenny

Hmm, so whereas for other words for other landmarks you'll have it as the you know that is their moment.

00:47:23 Jenny

That's their relevance. You can look back through all of the history of all of the shows have played.

00:47:28 Jenny

At the theatre.

00:47:29 Jenny

Royal and then you can kind of work out roughly how things were at that time, so I know people who've done like dissertations about.

00:47:38 Jenny

Plays that have been on at the Theatre Royal and that they said were kind of all focused towards like you know, marriage and like feminist kind of concerns and ideas like in the Renaissance period.

00:47:50 Jenny

And so yeah, you can kind of theatre is quite good for like charting a moment in history. And so. Yeah, I'd say it has. It's kind of continued relevance for that.

00:48:00 Jenny

An age of new types of theatre.

00:48:02 Ben

Oh, I enjoyed having the excuse to look research around the subject here, which I don't normally get to.

00:48:09 Ben

Do but I don't know if you know this, Jenny.

00:48:12 Ben

Because Drury Lane.

00:48:14 Ben

I reckon there are two other potential reasons it could be a landmark in itself, obviously.

00:48:18 Ben

The Muffin man lived there.

00:48:20

Which might be why Shrek?

00:48:22 Nicky

Shrek was on there!

00:48:23 Ben

It was great 'cause my hosted there.

00:48:25

Oh, I just really like that.

00:48:26 Nicky

He's perfect so.

00:48:27 Speaker 3

Perfect.

00:48:28 Ben

Potentially slightly more historical Drury Lane in 1869 was the home of the first ever Sainsbury's, really.

00:48:36 Ben

How about that? How about that?

00:48:37 Nicky

Same thing, uh?

00:48:39 Ben

Yeah, and you know, in my book already the first ever boots, the first ever M&S but not the first Sainsbury's which was on Drury Lane.

00:48:48 Ben

What a historical St?

00:48:50 Nicky

So you could go, that's how you could go and buy all your snacks for the theatre before going in.

00:48:55 Jenny

Everyone glare at you during the performance.

00:48:58 Nicky

You just got.

00:48:59 Nicky

Big glass jar of like and boiled sweets.

00:49:05 Ben

Jenny, the only other fact I've got, which I think you sent me, to be honest, I don't take credit for it, but it's about.

00:49:11 Ben

How theatres normally have one royal?

00:49:13 Ben

Box, but this theatre it's.

00:49:15 Ben

So royal that has two little boxes.

00:49:17 Nicky

Whoa, excellent.

00:49:19 Ben

Do you know? Do you know why?

00:49:22 Nicky

I do not know.

00:49:23 Ben

Oh great, I got to swoop in with this fact then yeah, apparently is unique to this theatre. Dates back to the time of King George the third who was almost assassinated there like you told us and because he was on bad terms with his son, future George the 4th. So avoid confrontation. The theatre set up two oil boxes for father and son.

00:49:43 Ben

So they could watch the plays separately, which is a unique feature.

00:49:46 Ben

To this business.

00:49:46 Nicky

Couldn't they just go on a different night?

00:49:49 Ben

Good question.

00:49:51 Jenny

That's like optimal bad family relations.

00:49:54 Nicky

Yeah, so when Jenny and I go to the theatre then we can.

00:49:59 Ben

Well, we've only got one more question for you, Jenny, unless you've got anything else for us. But of course one of the best features about Benjamin Britten is whenever we go to a landmark, we take a photo.

00:50:09 Ben

We whack that on Instagram, so our question to you is we're going to the Theatre Royal and we're posting it as a historical landmark. What is the photo that we're taking?

00:50:19 Ben

At this site.

00:50:21 Jenny

I feel like potentially particularly bearing in mind this is Nikki and I, and if we're going to at the moment.

00:50:27 Jenny

I mean, you've got frozen going on.

00:50:30 Jenny

Yes, yeah, like we'd have to stage it is Mickey and I each as one of the sisters outside.

00:50:33 Ben

Oh absolutely.

00:50:37 Jenny

Like this is going, we would also have to have someone like as a reindeer right as well. So yeah, just recreate all the characters I want, like themed outfits and everything.

00:50:49 Ben

Love it.

00:50:50 Nicky

And who's who's Ben going to be?

00:50:52 Nicky

Olaf?

00:50:54 Ben

The snowman the snowman.

00:50:55 Nicky

Yeah, yeah, I like that.

00:50:56 Ben

Yeah, let's no matter everyone loves Jenny. Does this apply to whatever shows on when you visit it? So if Oliver was the performance, you'd come as the Artful Dodger.

00:50:57 Speaker 3

OK.

00:51:06 Jenny

Yeah yeah, after my theme have someone like begging for more food.

00:51:11 Ben

Jenny, you've made you've.

00:51:11 Ben

Made a good case for this and it feels like we need a couple more theatres. Historical theatres in our in our list so.

00:51:20 Nicky

If you were going to go to any more landmarks with Ben.

00:51:23 Nicky

What which one would it?

00:51:24 Ben

Be, yeah, it's about time we get into another one, penny.

00:51:26 Nicky

Do you have any in mind?

00:51:28 Jenny

I mean, I enjoyed Hever castle before, so I feel like another good like Tudor palace kind of situation would be quite nice like a Hatfield house or something always up for.

00:51:37 Speaker 3

OK, OK.

00:51:40 Jenny

Something like that.

00:51:41 Ben

It's possible I would. I would personally appreciate it if you studied somewhere like Saint Andrews next. That'll be really useful and then we can.

00:51:49 Ben

Do all that landmarks around there.

00:51:51 Jenny

Yeah, I just need to theme all of them around around the university or course I'm studying, yeah.

00:51:57 Ben

Yes please yes.

00:51:59 Ben

Jenny, ever since we Nikki and I started this podcast, we've wanted you on. I think Nikki's been particularly excited and it's.

00:52:05 Ben

Been great, thank you.

00:52:06 Ben

For joining us this evening and.

00:52:08 Nicky

Thanks Jenny.

00:52:08 Jenny

Thank you for having me and letting me make the case.

00:52:11 Jenny

For her for theatre.

00:52:13 Ben

And well made, and we'll see you at another landmark sometime soon.

00:52:17 Jenny

Thank you.