10: St Paul's Cathedral

Sam Horton joins us to discuss his record breaking day of visiting 12 historical landmarks in a day with Ben, focusing on the iconic St Paul's Cathedral. Staying on the theme of architecture and religion, Sam's alternative landmark pick is also in London and is probably one of the most visually stunning to date.

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Transcript

Transcript

00:00:00 Ben

Welcome back to the Benjamin Britten podcast. I'm Ben, and for the last five years I've been trying to visit all the sites in Clive Aslet's book , Landmarks for Britain, 500 historical sites that made our history, and on this podcast we invite people who've been to some of those sites with me to chat about the highs and lows and.

00:00:19 Ben

We have a good old.

00:00:20 Ben

No chat history, geography and visiting sites around the UK with me.

00:00:24 Ben

As always going yellow.

00:00:26 Ben

Think you have it?

00:00:27 Nicky

Hi everyone I'm Nicky. I'm Ben's friend from Uni and General Historical keeno and editor.

00:00:33 Ben

Editor, producer, manager

00:00:37 Nicky

A few thing. So much like our last episode where we celebrated a birthday, we have got another birthday.

00:00:43 Nicky

Ben, it was your birthday on Monday.

00:00:45 Ben

Yeah, I joined you in the in the 30 club.

00:00:48 Nicky

Yeah, it's pretty fun here.

00:00:49 Nicky

And how did you celebrate?

00:00:51 Ben

Well Nicky, I didn't want to be working from home and I thought what's the one thing I want to do my birthday and of course it's.

00:00:57 Ben

A historical landmark.

00:00:58 Nicky

Of course.

00:01:00 Ben

So it took the day off and drove to the Dorset coast and visited an island off the coast which is itself and a historical landmark, which that's called the Isle of Portland.

00:01:09

Nice.

00:01:11 Nicky

So do you want to give us a roundup of some of the feedback responses opinions that we had on our first episode with Gemma?

00:01:18 Ben

Yeah, well, I really enjoyed listening back that episode, I must say.

00:01:23 Ben

The nicest review we.

00:01:25 Ben

Received was from Gemmas Mum.

00:01:27 Sam Horton

Yeah.

00:01:28 Ben

Got big shout out on the episode.

00:01:30 Ben

Not only was she very complimentary of what we're doing, but she is actually herself being inspired to go and visit the Isle of Iona.

00:01:38 Nicky

Wow, that's great.

00:01:39 Ben

Listening to episode I.

00:01:40 Ben

Nelson Nicky we are.

00:01:41 Ben

We are actually influencing people now due to this point.

00:01:43 Ben

Hi Matt.

00:01:43 Ben

00:01:44 Nicky

It would be great to hear if anyone else has been sort of inspired to go to, Umm, I don't know till brief or.

00:01:50 Nicky

So check the Warrens or I ate as much.

00:01:53 Nicky

Yeah, that's more of an actual visit though, is it?

00:01:55 Nicky

That's a full weekend.

00:01:57 Ben

Quite famously, in our last episode, Gemma exposed that you know, we've all got a lot to learn about history, including how many wives Henry VIII had

00:02:05 Ben

And previous guest Alex Fenton suggested that we might want to consider an entrance exam for guests historical entrance.

00:02:13 Ben

Before they go on the podcast, we're accessible, Nicky.

00:02:16 Ben

You know this is for anyone, no matter what their current, historical knowledge

00:02:20 Nicky

Yeah, exactly.

00:02:21 Ben

And generally we debuted it on his theme song, and that that's been getting most of our nice warm positive feedback.

00:02:27 Ben

And people seem to love it.

00:02:29 Nicky

So for this episode we have our mutual friend from University, Sam Horton and farmers.

00:02:36 Nicky

I suppose he would say a bit of a cool cat when it comes to land marking it.

00:02:40 Ben

Likes to pretend these two people are not.

00:02:42 Nicky

But really, what this episode that you're about to listen to exposes is the purest form of his nerdy side.

00:02:49 Nicky

I would say.

00:02:50 Ben

Absolutely.

00:02:51 Ben

It's a sound that I've seen before on our trips, but not many people get to see.

00:02:55 Ben

I'm like, please, it's now it's out there for the world to enjoy and listen.

00:02:59 Nicky

OK then, without further ado, let's follow over to our discussion with Sam.

00:03:03 Ben

Hope you enjoy.

00:03:05 Speaker 4

Yeah.

00:03:05 Speaker 4

Oh

00:03:05 Speaker 4

00:03:10 Gav Penn - Music

Come and ride along with Benjamins Britain, get to know the places and spaces around you.

00:03:15 Speaker 4

2nd.

00:03:23 Ben

Joining me and Nicky today is someone who wandered into my dorm room on the first day of University almost 12 years ago.

00:03:31 Ben

He's a student of English literature and one of the most well read people I know.

00:03:36 Ben

He's a lover of whiskey and a man with the best collection of brewery based clothing.

00:03:41 Ben

Now he's in love.

00:03:43 Ben

Each relationship with landmarks.

00:03:45 Ben

Even though he says it's 40.

00:03:47 Ben

Four of them.

00:03:47 Ben

It's our good friend Sam Walton Sam.

00:03:50 Ben

Welcome to the broadcast.

00:03:52 Sam Horton

Having me Ben I appreciate it and yeah, I like a few of the callouts you made there, there's some interesting yeah, interesting things that you've chosen to you identify with me.

00:04:01 Sam Horton

And yeah, I feel like they speak to my personality.

00:04:03 Sam Horton

Thank you.

00:04:05 Ben

Do for yourself accurately reflected in that.

00:04:07 Sam Horton

Correction, I tell you and I like the way that it's taking me back to you. Whenever it was 2009 Exeter the the bands that were shared and the friendship that was born persevered for more than 10 years through ups and downs, highs and lows. I don't remember many downs, mostly mostly high, supposedly wisenheimers.

00:04:23 Sam Horton

Well then there was that period when he lost about 30 games of chess to me in a row.

00:04:27 Sam Horton

I'd say that was a bit down for you.

00:04:30 Ben

It's not.

00:04:30 Sam Horton

But not for me.

00:04:33 Ben

Oh yeah.

00:04:33 Sam Horton

I had actually forgotten about that period of my life and I I think I want as many as I lost.

00:04:38 Sam Horton

Anyway, maybe on balance, maybe your balance over the 10 years taking the app into account then.

00:04:43 Sam Horton

But yeah, I mean real physical chess.

00:04:46 Sam Horton

There's no, there's no contest.

00:04:48 Nicky

So Sam bends intro referred to as being an English graduate and they ever been interested in history.

00:04:48 Speaker 4

Yeah.

00:04:55 Nicky

Or, you know, is it just something that bends forced you to do?

00:05:00 Sam Horton

So I've I've actually been immersing myself in history a little bit more than usual recently because I I'll.

00:05:07 Sam Horton

As Ben mentioned, I like to read a particularly particularly fiction, and I, you know, I.

00:05:11 Sam Horton

I dabble in a few different things.

00:05:13 Sam Horton

I love, you know, American detective fiction.

00:05:15 Sam Horton

I love sci-fi, but over the past, sort of six months, maybe more.

00:05:20 Sam Horton

I've been really fascinated by historical fiction.

00:05:23 Sam Horton

And particularly a series of books kind of set amongst the wars of the Roses which are absolutely fantastic.

00:05:29 Sam Horton

And I've.

00:05:30 Sam Horton

I've plowed through four or five.

00:05:32 Sam Horton

Of these books since Christmas, but what strikes me about it is that they're always drinking ale.

00:05:39 Sam Horton

Breakfast is the only thing that they drink, which is amazing before.

00:05:42 Nicky

Otherwise they’ll get Cholera

00:05:44 Speaker 4

'cause they got Cholera, you know I.

00:05:46 Sam Horton

Wish it was.

00:05:46 Sam Horton

Why is that not true?

00:05:47 Sam Horton

In modern society?

00:05:48 Sam Horton

You know why is it not acceptable to have?

00:05:50 Sam Horton

A breakfast ale I.

00:05:51 Nicky

Oh damn it, and I'll clean water.

00:05:53 Sam Horton

I think it's something that's really been lost over the years.

00:05:55 Sam Horton

In our society, you know, a comfortable breakfast Porter.

00:05:59 Ben

I, I think you could bring that back into fashion.

00:06:01 Ben

You know, I think you could launch a one man campaign to bring Ale back to breakfast with British breakfast.

00:06:06 Ben

Breakfast breakfast there.

00:06:06 Ben

00:06:07 Ben

For Sam you have visited.

00:06:09 Speaker 4

That's it.

00:06:10 Ben

Bought it for historical landmarks in my book.

00:06:13 Ben

Since 2016.

00:06:15 Ben

One of which we're going to talk about in.

00:06:16 Ben

Detail today, but I'd.

00:06:18 Ben

Love to know.

00:06:18 Ben

I'd love to know you know what?

00:06:21 Ben

What was your?

00:06:22 Ben

What was your reaction when when I when I explained you?

00:06:24 Ben

How did I?

00:06:25 Ben

I don't even remember introducing you to the concept of what became Benjamins Britain.

00:06:30 Sam Horton

So I can.

00:06:31 Sam Horton

I can tell you Ben, the first landmark that we visited together was on a night out in Bristol, maybe Georgian house.

00:06:39 Sam Horton

Yeah, in Bristol we had we had a great time.

00:06:42 Sam Horton

We were walking along trying to get home or going to another bar or whatever and you suddenly insisted that we go down this side street, take a picture outside.

00:06:51 Sam Horton

Random poorly lit house.

00:06:52 Speaker 4

All.

00:06:53 Sam Horton

Right K right this is a little bit weird, but yeah, whatever I wasn't even in that first picture.

00:06:59 Sam Horton

I I will I count it as a landmark, but I took.

00:07:00 Speaker 4

You

00:07:00 Ben

You work here.

00:07:01 Nicky

Right?

00:07:02 Sam Horton

I took picture.

00:07:03 Speaker 4

Yeah, yeah.

00:07:03 Sam Horton

I took the picture but I wasn't in the.

00:07:05 Sam Horton

Asia and that's my first memory of landmarks.

00:07:08 Sam Horton

It may have been my first one.

00:07:09 Sam Horton

It may not have been, but that's the first one I I vaguely remember, and since then I say it's been a bit of a bit of a love hate relationship.

00:07:16 Sam Horton

To be honest, absolutely.

00:07:16 Speaker 4

Yes.

00:07:18 Sam Horton

See it in general.

00:07:20 Sam Horton

I like visiting places, interesting places.

00:07:23 Sam Horton

I think it's I think it's a fun thing to do and.

00:07:25 Nicky

Interested in the keyword.

00:07:26 Sam Horton

Interesting being that being the keywords that the problem I have is that I maybe I've had some bad experiences.

00:07:33 Sam Horton

Maybe I've had some less than you know.

00:07:35 Sam Horton

Interesting grade landmarks in in my time and that that maybe has put me off perhaps?

00:07:42 Sam Horton

Yeah, my own competitiveness and they're bringing that spirit into this particular pursuit has also contributed to this sort of negative perceptions. You know, getting out ahead early, you know a bit of a bittersweet thing, because once you're there, you gotta maintain it, you know. And if you're doing that in the 1st 100, you've gotta, you gotta maintain it. For another 400 lap Bent 500 landmarks.

00:08:03 Sam Horton

Is a little landmarks and my attention span versus my competitive streak the balance isn't there for me to maintain that and Alex and Nicky.

00:08:11 Sam Horton

Have have the stamina settings, however I I simply don't.

00:08:13 Ben

The staying power.

00:08:15 Ben

But Sam, I do think you've done.

00:08:17 Ben

Your fair share of.

00:08:19 Ben

Landmarks we lovingly referred to as duds. We're about to about to talk about a really special landmark, but is there one that stands out to you for being the worst one that we've done out of the 44?

00:08:25 Sam Horton

Yeah.

00:08:30 Sam Horton

I'm I'm gonna.

00:08:31 Sam Horton

I'm gonna throw it back to the Slough Trading estate.

00:08:33 Sam Horton

Ben because it's the trading estate in Slough.

00:08:34 Speaker 4

Yeah.

00:08:35 Sam Horton

I mean, there's not much to recommend visiting Slough at the best of times and trading estate in particular.

00:08:41 Sam Horton

I mean, had there been a Nando's in Slough, you know that would have been a good trip, but a trading estate where we could not even go in and read the plaque.

00:08:44 Speaker 4

Yeah.

00:08:49 Sam Horton

Was somewhat of a of a disappointment to me and.

00:08:54 Nicky

Did you not even recreate the office?

00:08:57 Sam Horton

We didn't.

00:08:58 Sam Horton

We ate a Mars bar outside the gate and then drove on and had a lovely day out in in Eaton.

00:09:03 Sam Horton

I think afterwards or at Windsor or something like that.

00:09:04 Nicky

Yeah.

00:09:04 Nicky

I was gonna say you must have gone.

00:09:06 Nicky

To Windsor or something.

00:09:07 Sam Horton

Yeah we did.

00:09:08 Sam Horton

Yeah, maybe it was the juxtaposition of the style trading estate with these amazing beautiful historical buildings.

00:09:14 Ben

Yeah.

00:09:14 Sam Horton

Maybe it's the fact that I don't really like Mars bar.

00:09:16 Ben

Plus yeah, maybe it's the fact that I was slightly hungover and more so at that point in the day than later.

00:09:22 Ben

Yeah.

00:09:22 Ben

00:09:22 Ben

Yeah, listen that there were always going to be your Slough trading states, which just warrants a picture and a dash and.

00:09:30 Sam Horton

You know what I'd?

00:09:31 Ben

We're ready for them.

00:09:31 Sam Horton

Love to sit down with Clive. I'd like I think he'd be an interesting guy to sit down and have a drink with and see, you know, kind of why, why, why, these 500?

00:09:32 Ben

Hello.

00:09:39 Ben

I'm I'm desperate.

00:09:41 Ben

That conversation 5/1 day and maybe.

00:09:43 Ben

Is he listening, Ben?

00:09:43 Ben

He listening Ben.

00:09:44 Ben

I don't know.

00:09:45 Ben

Maybe he'll be a future guest, Sam maybe.

00:09:47 Sam Horton

Yeah, well, that would be that would be fantastic.

00:09:48 Ben

I believe.

00:09:49 Sam Horton

Look towards that.

00:09:50 Nicky

500

00:09:51 Speaker 4

Right?

00:09:52 Ben

500

00:09:53 Sam Horton

Speaking of 500th episodes, are you saving anything in particular for Landmark 500? Ben, do you have one in mind which you want to Crown off this glorious achievement with?

00:10:03 Sam Horton

Yeah.

00:10:03 Sam Horton

00:10:03 Ben

Yeah, I've got a few in mind.

00:10:04 Ben

All I know is it has to be a really special one because I've got an idea which I'm committed to and I'll put it on the podcast.

00:10:12 Ben

It's there so my 500. Anyone who's ever visited a llama is going to be invited to a party at the 500. Wow and and like one big group photo in front of the Violence Landmark and then and then the ceremonial destruction burial putting out to sea of the book itself.

00:10:20 Speaker 4

Huh?

00:10:32 Speaker 4

Ah.

00:10:32 Ben

So it would be nice to Bury it and leave.

00:10:34 Ben

The landmark I feel like that would be.

00:10:35 Sam Horton

Appropriate because once this is done, Sam I never want to see it ever again.

00:10:36 Speaker 4

And I.

00:10:38 Sam Horton

I think there may be some restrictions around burying Monday literature underneath their historical and possibly structurally unsound buildings, but yeah.

00:10:45 Nicky

Yeah, especially knowing which one you're thinking of.

00:10:49 Ben

Yeah, like I I got.

00:10:49 Nicky

You can pick you compare.

00:10:51

That's that's your choice.

00:10:52 Ben

I got 2M. I'm either gonna say Stonehenge for this because I want everyone to be there. I think it needs to be in London and I think it's gonna be Batman Palace and interesting.

00:11:01 Nicky

You're definitely not gonna be after fairy books under the either of those.

00:11:04 Ben

Yeah.

00:11:05 Sam Horton

You'll struggle with both of those unless they move Stonehenge back to Wales, which I know they've been talking about.

00:11:10 Ben

Yeah, exactly, that's what that's why.

00:11:11 Ben

I've been campaigned for.

00:11:12 Sam Horton

You could scrape out.

00:11:12 Ben

So one day.

00:11:13 Sam Horton

The spot where they're moving it to in advance.

00:11:17 Nicky

Or the the tunnel proposed underneath Stonehenge?

00:11:17 Sam Horton

You stay in handy.

00:11:21 Ben

Yeah, exactly, no, that'll be good.

00:11:22 Nicky

Just Bury it in the tunnel.

00:11:24 Ben

Somewhere there be a place to hide it.

00:11:24 Ben

Let me paste the.

00:11:24 Ben

00:11:25 Ben

Yeah, but that's a that's a.

00:11:27 Ben

It's a while off Sam we've we've got a.

00:11:29 Ben

Bit of time before we reach the giddy giddy Heights of 500.

00:11:30 Sam Horton

Yeah, we pay enough for fees by that by that point, so yeah.

00:11:34 Ben

Yeah, we'll be everyone.

00:11:35 Ben

Kids are invited.

00:11:38 Nicky

Yeah.

00:11:39 Ben

Excellent.

00:11:42 Ben

Sam, we have invited you to bring to the discussion. One of the 44 star landmarks we visited.

00:11:45 Speaker 4

Yeah.

00:11:51 Ben

Yeah, and would you like tell us which one you've chosen and and why this one?

00:11:56 Sam Horton

So I'm going to talk about this particular landmark in the context of a very special day in my landmarking experience, a record setting day which will never be beaten, and I I'd like to lay this.

00:12:11 Sam Horton

Now as kind of like a tasting menu at a fine dining restaurant, right?

00:12:15 Sam Horton

You know where you get 10 different courses or you know I think it was actually 11 different courses.

00:12:20 Sam Horton

In this particular case.

00:12:21 Ben

It was 12 actually said well of.

00:12:23 Sam Horton

Course well, yeah, sometimes we don't count that the cheese course, but in this case we will.

00:12:23 Speaker 4

I'm upset.

00:12:29 Sam Horton

But then I'm like I.

00:12:30 Sam Horton

Have selected this Saint Paul's Cathedral, a fitting landmark. I think to mark your hundredth visit as part of this pilgrimage. Following Clive aslets. Absolutely and frankly, one of the most interesting buildings in London and probably one of the biggest draws when you're a foreign tourists coming to the city.

00:12:49 Sam Horton

You know when you think about London, suppose is right up there.

00:12:50 Ben

Absolutely.

00:12:52 Sam Horton

No, not only is it being splashed all over the popular media, but it.

00:12:52 Speaker 4

Yeah.

00:12:55 Sam Horton

Is it was until?

00:12:56 Sam Horton

I think like 1967 or something, the tallest building in London. And yeah, yeah it was. It was legally, I think mandated to be the tallest building in London when it was overtaken by like Britannia House, which is in the city and which is nowhere near as interesting or as exciting.

00:13:01 Nicky

What, yeah, yeah.

00:13:01 Nicky

What, yeah?

00:13:12 Speaker 4

No.

00:13:15 Ben

Amongst landmarks, this is a.

00:13:17 Ben

This is a top tier landmark ship.

00:13:18 Sam Horton

This is not a dud.

00:13:19 Sam Horton

This is not done.

00:13:20 Sam Horton

However, what I will say is that on the day that we visited Ben it was a bit of a dud for both of us because I think it was.

00:13:27

Uh.

00:13:30 Sam Horton

It was pretty.

00:13:31 Sam Horton

It was a nice time of year as maybe the springtime.

00:13:33 Sam Horton

I was very busy.

00:13:35 Speaker 4

Uh.

00:13:35 Sam Horton

It was also very expensive to go in.

00:13:37 Sam Horton

I think I'm.

00:13:37 Sam Horton

Yeah it was maybe £20 a person and as part of this sort of speed landmarking tour of central London we could neither afford the entry fee nor the time on our very strict agenda to get around the rest of these landmarks. So I think you both you and I have visited the cathedral separately.

00:13:37 Sam Horton

Human it was.

00:13:37 Sam Horton

00:13:39 Ben

I think so.

00:13:48 Nicky

Yeah.

00:13:57 Sam Horton

Since taking the picture outside that that is correct.

00:13:59 Sam Horton

Uh.

00:13:59 Sam Horton

00:14:01 Sam Horton

But on the day itself, we obviously we got the Fantastic View.

00:14:04 Sam Horton

We saw Patternmaster square, you know all the good stuff, but we didn't.

00:14:07 Ben

Go inside well.

00:14:07 Speaker 4

Huh?

00:14:08 Ben

Sam, I think you need to accept quite a lot of the blame for this because this was the day where I had visited more landmarks 12 than any other day single day.

00:14:17 Ben

During this entire historical landmark Odyssey.

00:14:20 Ben

Yeah.

00:14:20 Ben

00:14:21 Ben

12 and a day it was impressive.

00:14:23 Ben

Sam, I'd say we were pushing ourselves to get on.

00:14:26 Sam Horton

We did push ourselves.

00:14:26 Sam Horton

Push ourselves.

00:14:26 Ben

We did the next cells Sam, you mentioned.

00:14:29 Ben

You're a competitive person and I think 2 a couple of things were motivating that day.

00:14:32 Ben

One I think I told you Nicky and then 18.

00:14:36 Ben

Secondly, I didn't don't think we started this day knowing we were gonna do 1212. I think I told you I think I told you oh that's my like 91st and like when you realize that we we were on track to do my 100th landmark right?

00:14:41 Sam Horton

I don't think you did.

00:14:41 Sam Horton

Don't think did.

00:14:51 Speaker 4

You stopped it.

00:14:51 Speaker 4

You stopped.

00:14:51 Sam Horton

I insisted upon it.

00:14:52 Ben

Absolutely motivated you.

00:14:54 Sam Horton

That that lit a fire under me, yeah.

00:14:55 Speaker 4

I mean.

00:14:57 Sam Horton

Let's be real, babe.

00:14:59 Sam Horton

Some of the landmarks that they were better than others.

00:15:01 Sam Horton

Let me tell you.

00:15:01 Ben

Let me tell you.

00:15:01 Ben

00:15:03 Sam Horton

There is a very convenient loophole and actually a much a great loophole for getting around paying the entry fee, which is going going to visit for a particular service, which is actually how I went and visited.

00:15:10 Nicky

I think I know what you mean to say.

00:15:16 Sam Horton

So I think maybe a year or so after Ben and I had been there, I went with my mum and we did even sold one Sunday.

00:15:21 Ben

Yeah.

00:15:24 Sam Horton

So not only do you get to walk around some pause on the day when it's typically closed, so there are no tourists there and it's absolutely amazing and you can see you know Jacob Wellington and his statue and all the various stuff in the you know in the crypt and you know it's amazing place.

00:15:33 Speaker 4

Yeah.

00:15:37 Sam Horton

Yes, but you get to sit there while they're playing the organ and the this absolutely sublime choir singing some incredible stuff, so it's really.

00:15:45 Sam Horton

That was a great experience.

00:15:47 Sam Horton

That's that's the way to experience the cathedral as it's intended, like as a place of very formal worship.

00:15:53 Nicky

Do you feel like 'cause?

00:15:55 Nicky

Personally I'm not religious and I feel like I feel.

00:15:58 Nicky

But for going in for free to a service that I didn't really believe in, so do you feel like that you should do that only if you really feel.

00:16:07 Sam Horton

No 'cause I I.

00:16:07 Ben

'cause I I?

00:16:07 Ben

00:16:08 Sam Horton

I'm I may have grown up in a in a religious household, but I'm not personally religious.

00:16:13 Sam Horton

A term.

00:16:14 Sam Horton

Someone who has faith but not not religious, and particularly not very formal.

00:16:17 Nicky

Yeah yeah, yeah.

00:16:19 Sam Horton

Traditional religion, it's not something that I buy into, yeah, but you know, I think you can be respectful of those sorts of traditions and ceremonies and really appreciate them, even if it's not something that you directly believe.

00:16:32 Sam Horton

And even even if you're going there purely for the sake of the music, you know the very sort of traditional choral, you know, Christian music?

00:16:37 Nicky

Train.

00:16:39 Sam Horton

I mean, that's something that everybody can enjoy it to me.

00:16:41 Sam Horton

That stuff just sings of Christmas.

00:16:43 Sam Horton

You know, if I think you're listening to acquire saying it's Christmas, it's it's something splendid that anybody can listen to and just take something from, yeah?

00:16:44 Nicky

Yeah yeah, yeah.

00:16:51 Ben

I say I'm.

00:16:51 Ben

It's a proud Jew.

00:16:53 Ben

It's a little.

00:16:53 Ben

Bit more complicated some.

00:16:55 Ben

Ethical boundaries which might need to.

00:16:56 Ben

Be crossed for such activities.

00:16:59 Ben

Especially as a Saint Paul himself.

00:17:02 Ben

They have a controversial figure because.

00:17:03 Ben

Pretty sure a lot of.

00:17:04 Ben

Historical Christian anti-Semitism is being based on his writings.

00:17:08 Ben

So yeah, that's OK.

00:17:09 Sam Horton

Interesting.

00:17:11 Ben

You know that's OK because the.

00:17:13 Ben

The cathedral has nothing to do with.

00:17:14 Ben

The man it's just named after, so I'm OK.

00:17:17 Nicky

Small detail.

00:17:18 Sam Horton

When I was reading up on this, though, there was some interesting writing around Saint Paul being quite controversial figure after which to name a cathedral.

00:17:26 Sam Horton

It's very irregular.

00:17:28 Sam Horton

To name any sort of religious building after him as a St. Because he is somewhat controversial. I mean, Saint Paul's is such a store.

00:17:30 Speaker 4

It's interesting.

00:17:34 Sam Horton

Great and long history, you know.

00:17:36 Sam Horton

Well, four different religious buildings on the site where St pauses.

00:17:41 Sam Horton

It is so now I'm, you know, dating back to like Viking Times and destroyed by the pagans and rebuilt and rebuilt again.

00:17:46 Ben

Mm-hmm

00:17:51 Sam Horton

And in its modern iteration built by Sir Christopher Wren.

00:17:51 Speaker 4

Mm-hmm

00:17:55 Sam Horton

Interestingly, Sir Christopher Wren was looking to.

00:17:55 Speaker 4

Yes.

00:17:59 Sam Horton

Renovate Saint Paul's Cathedral two weeks before the Great Fire of London in 1666 and then the fire happened 2 weeks later and then he said Oh well, **** I've gotta do it now. 'cause the cathedral burned.

00:18:01 Speaker 4

Yeah.

00:18:10 Nicky

Down so it's it was on purpose.

00:18:10 Nicky

So what you're saying, if it was?

00:18:13 Ben

That's what I'm hearing Sam, yes.

00:18:14 Sam Horton

I'm gonna start.

00:18:14 Sam Horton

I'm gonna.

00:18:15 Sam Horton

Conspiracy theory here though.

00:18:16 Sam Horton

Sister Red wanted to re architect the whole of the City of London, and May have started that fire in that bakery.

00:18:18 Ben

Trust him.

00:18:23 Nicky

It's a good business model to be honest.

00:18:25 Nicky

You gotta get some work you don't know where you're going to find it.

00:18:28 Nicky

Are people gonna really want higher?

00:18:29 Nicky

Well, everything burnt down they really architects.

00:18:33 Ben

Yeah, and Christopher Wren.

00:18:34 Ben

I mean, without the great fire of London and all the projects that you do afterwards, we would never know his name today.

00:18:40 Ben

So he's.

00:18:40 Sam Horton

A fascinating guy.

00:18:42 Sam Horton

Absolutely fascinating guy and you know, in some ways historically more interesting than the building which he created.

00:18:49 Sam Horton

I think he actually submitted designs to rebuild most.

00:18:53 Sam Horton

Of London after the Great fire.

00:18:54 Sam Horton

So plans he was like the Royal Commissioner or something so responsible for all major design works in in the country.

00:19:01 Sam Horton

But his plans for rebuilding London as a city were rejected and he was instead given responsibility specifically for rebuilding the 51 great churches of London that had burnt down there a variety of different churches that he.

00:19:13 Ben

It's there's so many churches, yeah.

00:19:16 Sam Horton

I mean some other impressive buildings like he built Hampton Court, or at least the yeah.

00:19:20 Sam Horton

Well, we have Hampton Court the the Naval College over in Greenwich and some really recognizable buildings.

00:19:20 Ben

So yeah, oh wow.

00:19:26 Ben

Let me tell you Sam Clive Osler.

00:19:28 Ben

Causing one of the greatest English.

00:19:31 Ben

Men with Saint Paul says his masterpiece, so Clyde is full of praise for Christopher Wren.

00:19:35

Yes.

00:19:37 Sam Horton

Well, I I'm not surprised. I think Saint Paul's was was actually built within his lifetime as well. That's an amazing feat 'cause most cathedrals that have been built are hundreds of years to construct. Whereas this was done within the lifetime of the architect. And actually, it's it's speculated that he died going to visit.

00:19:55 Sam Horton

His cathedral 'cause he caught cold but also it he he lived with the unprecedented ripe old age of 91 and it's only so yeah, uh, really increase.

00:19:56 Speaker 4

Hello.

00:19:57 Ben

Oh wow oh wow oh.

00:20:03 Speaker 4

Oh

00:20:07 Sam Horton

For life concept.

00:20:08 Nicky

It's also it makes you think. I mean, we're all just about 10:30. I hate to bring it up, but it does. It does make you think, how on Earth is some will fit all of that into their life?

00:20:13 Sam Horton

Whisper it whisper.

00:20:19 Sam Horton

In 91 years it's a.

00:20:21 Ben

Long time I think I read she was 35 years old and was appointed to design the new Saint Paul. So that gives us that gives us five years to get to the level that Christopher Reynolds and Quest.

00:20:27 Ben

No.

00:20:27 Ben

00:20:31 Sam Horton

We've got the big drop that.

00:20:32 Ben

We've got, we've got themselves.

00:20:32 Sam Horton

We need to.

00:20:33 Sam Horton

Do to start a fire that burns down the entire capital of the UK.

00:20:36 Sam Horton

Yeah, some.

00:20:37 Sam Horton

Of the really good plan.

00:20:37 Ben

Again.

00:20:39 Sam Horton

To rebuild the churches.

00:20:40 Nicky

I don't know if I'm making this up.

00:20:42 Nicky

Is there a link between some calls and the Vatican like bit architecture based sorts?

00:20:46 Ben

Yes, because.

00:20:47 Sam Horton

He was was inspired by by Michelangelo. Although his his Dome is bigger, so you know a little bit of dick swinging there on the part of Christopher Wren. You can look at Saint Paul's and it doesn't look.

00:20:53 Ben

2nd.

00:20:58 Ben

Anything like a lot of the other medieval cathedrals that you can see up and down the country?

00:21:04 Ben

I mean, there are a lot of cathedrals in in this book and this one really stands out.

00:21:09 Sam Horton

He actually architected the tower. There were sorry, the Dome around the original tower that was there from the old Saint Paul's Cathedral, which was a much more traditional kind of paramedical. I don't know what the term is. Gothic Spire of the Cathedral Gothic exactly, but he wanted to be kind of modern in his.

00:21:18 Speaker 4

Yeah.

00:21:29 Sam Horton

In his design site.

00:21:31 Speaker 4

It's surprisingly.

00:21:31 Sam Horton

Hence there the references to France, the Roman pantheon and things like that.

00:21:35 Nicky

Uh, yeah, it's a.

00:21:37 Nicky

Bit similar to the then we went to the Sacre Coeur, it's like a similar kind of rounded.

00:21:41 Sam Horton

Yes.

00:21:43 Ben

That's right, interesting.

00:21:43 Nicky

3rd, I think it's really, really hard to make domes or.

00:21:47 Nicky

Obviously there's the element of they have to hold themselves.

00:21:50 Sam Horton

Umm, but it's built double.

00:21:50 Nicky

And.

00:21:51 Sam Horton

Layered it hasn't it?

00:21:53 Sam Horton

It has a wooden inner.

00:21:54 Sam Horton

Which is geometrically designed with like lead layered over the top of it and then like tile on the outside with a like a ornamental like stonecast monument on top.

00:21:54 Speaker 4

Huh?

00:22:07 Sam Horton

Like if you look at the architectural drawings of it, it's it's fascinating, but you can see how they've created that Dome, and you know that there's this.

00:22:14 Sam Horton

Famous thing it's impose like the Whispering Gallery.

00:22:17 Nicky

Yeah, yeah.

00:22:17 Sam Horton

It's we're using speak and it carried.

00:22:17 Ben

It's amazing.

00:22:20 Sam Horton

It makes an amazing thing.

00:22:21 Sam Horton

It was entirely accidental.

00:22:22 Sam Horton

It wasn't done by design, it's just a a very interesting design.

00:22:27 Sam Horton

And benefit I guess, or perk of the way that that Dome.

00:22:30 Ben

Works so for listeners who've never been Saint Paul's. If you're standing on the inside of the stone, which is humongous, you could stand at one side of this circular Walker on the inside. Lean against the wall and whisper something really quietly and somebody said standing on the opposite side of the Dome can.

00:22:36 Speaker 4

Whew.

00:22:43 Ben

Quietly.

00:22:43 Ben

00:22:47 Ben

Or he'll whisper amplified loudly.

00:22:50 Speaker 4

No.

00:22:50 Ben

It's an amazing phenomenon, and when the day I was there, there was so many tourists about that the whispers were just amplified everywhere.

00:22:59 Ben

That's the company of sound, and it wasn't.

00:23:00 Nicky

Do you feel like you're going mad?

00:23:03 Ben

Absolutely, uhm.

00:23:03 Ben

Absolutely.

00:23:04 Ben

Voices in your head yeah.

00:23:05 Speaker 4

Yeah.

00:23:05 Speaker 4

00:23:06 Ben

It's it's really, really interesting to experience, and I I'd recommend going to Saint Paul.

00:23:11 Ben

Just to just to feel that.

00:23:13 Nicky

It.

00:23:14 Sam Horton

It's been deliberately recreated in various places around the world, one of which is Grand Central station in New York, where they have an oyster bar with the same kind of architectural design.

00:23:22 Speaker 4

Wow.

00:23:23 Speaker 4

Really.

00:23:23 Sam Horton

And to do that, and also the Berkeley, which is a Wetherspoons in Bristol.

00:23:27 Sam Horton

So you know.

00:23:30 Sam Horton

Various different whispering Gallery esque structures inspired by Sir Christopher Wren's design.

00:23:35 Nicky

I haven't actually been simple, even though my dad worked around the corner, even though I've worked in Holborn.

00:23:40 Nicky

I mean, I've been everywhere in London but not there, but I have seen it a lot on TV in film.

00:23:47 Nicky

And you know, in big events lots of people have had funerals there.

00:23:51 Nicky

Important people.

00:23:52 Nicky

Thatcher.

00:23:53 Sam Horton

Since Winston Churchill, the Big Dogs, yeah, big dogs.

00:23:55 Ben

Yeah.

00:23:56 Speaker 4

Well.

00:23:57 Nicky

Yeah, Charles and Diana were married there.

00:24:00 Sam Horton

Yeah, it's called honor to close that place down.

00:24:00 Sam Horton

It's called.

00:24:00 Sam Horton

00:24:03 Sam Horton

You know it's requires a really like major major event.

00:24:03 Nicky

Yeah.

00:24:06 Ben

I also read that the gunpowder plotters were hanged and disemboweled at thinkful, scabby drole.

00:24:11 Nicky

Oh, really.

00:24:13 Ben

Yep, in 1606 and it's not the.

00:24:15 Sam Horton

modern day st pauls cathedral then, the previous one

00:24:17 Ben

Very good point. Old Saint Paul's that's that's true, you know.

00:24:21 Sam Horton

I mean, it has been subject to terrorist plots.

00:24:23 Ben

And in fact.

00:24:23 Ben

And.

00:24:24 Sam Horton

In fact, one of the most interesting modern day ones is the suffragettes.

00:24:28 Sam Horton

They actually put a battery powered bomb under the bishops.

00:24:32 Sam Horton

Seat i St Pauls Cathedral sent to blow it up , but the battery didn't work.

00:24:32 Ben

Bow Wow.

00:24:37 Nicky

It's gone through so much and so many iterations where it's now immune because that obviously didn't work.

00:24:43 Nicky

The blitz faintly didn't.

00:24:44 Sam Horton

Yeah.

00:24:45 Speaker 4

Mm-hmm

00:24:46 Nicky

They didn't attach some pools.

00:24:48 Sam Horton

That's not true there.

00:24:49 Sam Horton

Are three things that happened during the Blitz.

00:24:51 Sam Horton

Yeah, we got hit by one bomb which demolished just more part of it.

00:24:55 Sam Horton

Another bomb exploded nearby.

00:24:56 Sam Horton

It actually shifted the Dome on its foundations by, you know a couple of centimeters or millimeters or something like that.

00:25:03 Speaker 4

Wow.

00:25:03 Sam Horton

So it really felt the impact.

00:25:05 Sam Horton

With that, but there was also a bomb which was dropped but didn't detonate, which landed inside the cathedral and was subsequently detonated elsewhere, but which would, which would have completely destroyed the cathedral, yeah?

00:25:10 Nicky

Yeah, I think I said.

00:25:13 Ben

Oh my gosh.

00:25:16 Nicky

But there's not code, though.

00:25:17 Nicky

Isn't there of absent calls in the Blitz?

00:25:19 Nicky

I think it's one of those famous pictures.

00:25:21 Nicky

Yeah, everything else is on fire around it and it's just standing there.

00:25:24 Nicky

How, how?

00:25:25 Nicky

They didn't manage to.

00:25:26 Nicky

Hit it well.

00:25:28 Nicky

Properly and actually destroy it on me.

00:25:30 Ben

It became iconic in that night.

00:25:32 Ben

I I'm, I'm sure, in the public imagination that there's some.

00:25:35 Sam Horton

I mean, given it was the tallest building in London for well over 200 years, I'd say it's probably pretty iconic before that. But you know, maybe that was the night. Maybe that was maybe.

00:25:40 Nicky

Yeah.

00:25:42 Nicky

True, true spicing it.

00:25:45 Sam Horton

That was the night.

00:25:45 Ben

Yeah, I think it's remained such a fixture in the public imagination because of surviving the blitz and it became a symbol.

00:25:52 Ben

Of Britain surviving the Blitz because simple was still standing. There is one thing about Saint Paul's we haven't mentioned and is that there are eight protected views for Saint Paul's around London where you are not allowed by law to build in front or behind Saint Paul's because it will block the view and one of them.

00:25:53 Sam Horton

Yeah yeah yeah yeah.

00:26:12 Ben

These protected views is in Richmond Park on King Henry Mount, which is 16 kilometres.

00:26:18 Ben

Away from Saint Paul's and there is a line through West London. Completely unobstructed and you can see Saint Paul's even the trees in Richmond Park and cut to allow a tunnel vision. Even the trees, which is just quite special.

00:26:29 Speaker 4

Eight in the trees wow.

00:26:32 Sam Horton

That's a massively influential building in the way that London as a city has developed as well.

00:26:37 Ben

100%.

00:26:37 Sam Horton

You think about it, most of the tall buildings in London are to the East of samples, right?

00:26:43 Speaker 4

Yeah.

00:26:43 Sam Horton

Presumably so as not to obstruct these.

00:26:45 Sam Horton

Like the GS, which by the way was only a law that was passed whenever it was in the late 60s.

00:26:50 Sam Horton

Once it became the second tallest building in London.

00:26:52 Ben

Laugh right?

00:26:52 Ben

Laugh.

00:26:53 Ben

Nice, I know that the building that we called the cheese Grater is is sloped to not obstruct one of these views. Yeah yeah, yeah, Christopher Wren himself is buried in the crypt of Saint Paul's. His tomb says in Latin reader, if you seek his monument look.

00:26:55 Speaker 4

Yeah.

00:27:00 Ben

Oh, is that why it's interesting how that?

00:27:12 Ben

Around you, which I just think is such a such a mic drop in terms of 2/2 inscriptions.

00:27:16 Sam Horton

Hey, that's pretty good.

00:27:19 Nicky

Yeah, yeah.

00:27:19 Nicky

00:27:19 Sam Horton

Yeah, particularly given that he built the monument as well and is responsible for that, another landmark that we also visited on that same day.

00:27:24 Speaker 4

Yeah.

00:27:26 Sam Horton

Ben 2 Christopher.

00:27:28 Sam Horton

Read landmarks in the same day, brilliant.

00:27:30 Ben

Holy moly he.

00:27:31 Ben

Was he was the man of the day for us.

00:27:33 Nicky

So Speaking of the rest of the day.

00:27:36 Nicky

Give us a quick run through on what the rest of the day looked like.

00:27:40 Sam Horton

Well, I'm going to have to pull up a list because the rest of it was so hard.

00:27:42 Sam Horton

Memorable Nicky, but we started at Westminster Cathedral.

00:27:43 Nicky

Oh yeah, thanks.

00:27:46 Sam Horton

We then moved over to either John Murray Publishers, which which would absolutely make it as one of my least favorite landmark services.

00:27:54 Ben

My dog.

00:27:54 Sam Horton

Line 2 or mine too.

00:27:56 Sam Horton

It's it's there at the bottom the bottom 10.

00:27:59 Sam Horton

The shots being memorials, fairly interesting.

00:28:01 Sam Horton

That's the kind of ornate fountain that's very near Picadilly Circus the FCO.

00:28:06 Sam Horton

I don't even remember what the FCO is.

00:28:08 Ben

The Foreign and Commonwealth most of these were a quick picture and Sam Sam forcing us onto the next.

00:28:13 Sam Horton

Refresh me there.

00:28:14 Speaker 4

Sorry.

00:28:14 Sam Horton

Then Bedford Square, Russell Square, Mansion House Monument, Winchester Palace.

00:28:20 Sam Horton

Yeah, there were some.

00:28:21 Sam Horton

There were some interesting ones that day.

00:28:22 Sam Horton

But we we were.

00:28:23 Sam Horton

We were on a mission to hit as many of these landmarks as possible in maybe a six or seven hour period and then finish up with some very expensive bakhlava from the.

00:28:34 Ben

But the markets?

00:28:34 Sam Horton

Uhm Borough Market exactly.

00:28:37 Nicky

Of all the photos.

00:28:39 Nicky

That you took each photo.

00:28:41 Nicky

Sam has got a different facial expression in every single one.

00:28:44 Nicky

Interesting, but you know most of your photos are people, just like smiling or doing something nice.

00:28:49 Nicky

Yeah, in in.

00:28:50 Nicky

These ones there's there's gurning.

00:28:52 Nicky

There's grimacing, there's smirking smiling there's everything in between yeah just.

00:28:53 Speaker 4

Yeah.

00:28:58 Ben

Yeah, I had noticed that.

00:28:58 Ben

I had noticed that.

00:28:59 Nicky

Yeah, very.

00:29:00 Sam Horton

Yeah yeah, you want to be remembered for being multifaceted rather than just, you know, a polite smile.

00:29:06 Sam Horton

And I take that very seriously.

00:29:09 Ben

I appreciated your vision Sam.

00:29:11 Ben

You knew your own attitude knew that you needed to get a big record, set a line drawn in the sand.

00:29:18 Ben

Then you could sit back and relax for a couple of years and.

00:29:20 Ben

Let others catch up.

00:29:22 Sam Horton

Exactly and others have caught up on this have surpassed me but that record.

00:29:27 Sam Horton

Will never be beaten.

00:29:27 Sam Horton

Ben and I can retire knowing.

00:29:29 Sam Horton

That while I may not be, you know, highly gabri Selassie, you know, I'm not going to break marathon records.

00:29:35 Nicky

Yeah.

00:29:35 Sam Horton

I am the Usain Bolt of Landmarking.

00:29:37 Speaker 4

Yeah.

00:29:38 Sam Horton

I've got, I've got the world fastest landmark title under my belt and that's that's enough for me.

00:29:43 Ben

You do you do?

00:29:45 Sam Horton

What we've learned.

00:29:46 Sam Horton

As Ben rightly pointed out, is it's not a good way of doing landmarks.

00:29:49 Ben

It's not, it's not.

00:29:49 Sam Horton

Clean up the bad taste in your mouth.

00:29:51 Sam Horton

It's much better to do a two or three really enjoy them.

00:29:52 Speaker 4

Yeah.

00:29:55 Sam Horton

Actually, spend some time at the place.

00:29:57 Sam Horton

Enjoy it.

00:29:58 Sam Horton

It's not a it's not a Sprint sport.

00:29:59 Sam Horton

It's a sport where you want to take your time and enjoy the enjoy the ride.

00:30:04 Nicky

Very exam, it's time to rate the landmark movements in Saint Paul's Cathedral and the first category is the historical significance. So we'd like you to rate it.

00:30:14 Nicky

Out of 10.

00:30:16 Sam Horton

I'm going to give it.

00:30:17 Sam Horton

An 8 I think it's been around since the year 604, so it's a it's a it's one of the older landmarks in the book, probably.

00:30:27 Sam Horton

In various different instances, but it's played a a central role in the London skyline for at least the last 300 years is one of the most recognizable British buildings, and probably was designed by Britain's most famous ever.

00:30:31 Ben

It's.

00:30:31 Ben

00:30:47 Sam Horton

Architect so I'd say that constitutes a pretty a pretty big score of eight.

00:30:52 Nicky

So the the second category is the fun factor.

00:30:56 Sam Horton

Uh, a date, which I would classify as a 10, but that particular experience is a quick snap and move on.

00:31:01 Sam Horton

You know, when we're both quite sweaty and then was quite.

00:31:04 Sam Horton

Uptight about landmarks, it was this 100 so we had to take maybe 7.

00:31:08 Sam Horton

7 rated photos.

00:31:11 Sam Horton

This ticket for Cathedral in general.

00:31:12 Sam Horton

I don't think it's for fun.

00:31:13 Sam Horton

You do it out of interest and maybe it's kind of a respectful visit.

00:31:17 Sam Horton

Slightly more somber visit than some of the other landmarks, so give it maybe a solid 5 on the fun factor.

00:31:23 Sam Horton

It's interesting, but it's kind of quiet and reserved.

00:31:26 Sam Horton

You can't really talk to your friends while you're inside or do silly things.

00:31:28

Straight.

00:31:30 Sam Horton

You can't be drunk.

00:31:31 Sam Horton

While you're there really a lot of respects.

00:31:33 Nicky

No, not like yeah.

00:31:34 Sam Horton

Getting that's a.

00:31:35 Sam Horton

Worship or to respect the history rather than to have.

00:31:37 Ben

Not obviously.

00:31:40 Nicky

And the the final category is its install worthiness.

00:31:44 Sam Horton

The the picture that we took for happy doesn't it?

00:31:44 Speaker 4

Yeah.

00:31:47 Sam Horton

It certainly doesn't do it justice, but I think it's a 10 out of 10 for being a photogenic landmark.

00:31:53 Sam Horton

It's certainly instagrammable.

00:31:55 Sam Horton

I would say of or maybe of all the landmarks in the book.

00:31:59 Sam Horton

It would be in the top ten in terms of the most Instagrammed.

00:32:02 Sam Horton

If you did some research around it it.

00:32:04 Sam Horton

It would be a.

00:32:05 Sam Horton

Contender for the top spot of that list.

00:32:07 Sam Horton

So 10 out of 10.

00:32:08 Sam Horton

Fat Instagram ableness

00:32:10 Nicky

Speaking of Instagram and Saint Paul's, isn't there a bar near Saint Paul's that everyone goes to and takes pictures out on the balcony?

00:32:18 Ben

Yeah, it's true.

00:32:19 Nicky

Oh, it's in the background, yeah?

00:32:21 Sam Horton

I think it's the W Hotel which is very close by.

00:32:23 Nicky

They stick.

00:32:25 Ben

Yeah, I've been out there for a.

00:32:26 Ben

Date once it's uh.

00:32:27 Nicky

Ah, you're basic.

00:32:31 Sam Horton

Such charming and romantic.

00:32:33 Ben

It's a great.

00:32:34 Ben

It's a great sport in the city and.

00:32:36 Nicky

The first dates restaurant, isn't it?

00:32:37 Sam Horton

Then I think it's a pattern off the chop house, which is where it's filmed, so yes.

00:32:41 Speaker 4

Oh

00:32:42 Sam Horton

2nd.

00:32:45 Nicky

Same on the series, seeing what?

00:32:47 Ben

Well Sam, you have rated Staples Cathedral 23 out of 30 which which is a very good rate.

00:32:53 Speaker 4

Yeah.

00:32:53 Speaker 4

00:32:54 Sam Horton

Yeah, it's a good school.

00:32:55 Sam Horton

It's a good school.

00:32:56 Ben

It's a good score. We've raised it 23 or 30 and I think we both say Sam, but we'd recommend any listeners actually turning up samples.

00:33:04 Ben

Help go for service.

00:33:05 Ben

Or pay the entrance fee and have a good explore.

00:33:11 Nicky

So Sam, for every guest we ask that you bring in an alternative landmark, something that's not in Clive Aslet book, not one of the final Now marks that Ben is.

00:33:24 Nicky

For the project of Benjamin Person and and something you think is deserving of being in a, you know if if we were going to write our own book, what would be in it?

00:33:33 Nicky

So Sam, please tell us what you've decided to come to.

00:33:38 Nicky

Talk to us about.

00:33:39 Sam Horton

Well, thank you Nicky.

00:33:41 Sam Horton

That's a wonderful introduction and.

00:33:44 Sam Horton

I'm going to ask.

00:33:46 Sam Horton

Ben Sullivan to cast his mind back to the 10th of January, 2015. This is something I've picked because to me it is a very special memory. I think it's a very interesting landmark there also.

00:34:00 Sam Horton

Takes us back to a pre landmark era. Both Ben and I have been to this place together so, but I'm asking you to cast your mind back to the 10th of January 2015 N London. A cold brisk Sunday morning in nice day.

00:34:18 Speaker 4

Yeah.

00:34:20 Ben

Oh

00:34:21 Sam Horton

Visiting Nissan Temple or the BAPS Shree Swaminarayan Mandir of London.

00:34:28 Speaker 4

Amazing yeah.

00:34:28 Speaker 4

Amazing.

00:34:28 Sam Horton

It's a yeah, so it's commonly known as Neasden temple, which is, uh, he's Hindu temple and is one of the most visually impressive buildings that I've.

00:34:39 Sam Horton

Ever visited in my life and completely anachronistic with its setting right?

00:34:45 Sam Horton

It's.

00:34:45 Ben

Absolutely.

00:34:46 Speaker 4

Please.

00:34:47 Sam Horton

You know, Niesten, I'm sure it's a.

00:34:49 Sam Horton

It's a nice place to live, but it's very much a suburb of London, quite uninteresting historically, as far as I'm aware, so it has this amazing Hindu temple located there built by the local community, done in an incredibly historical fashion.

00:34:54 Speaker 4

Sure.

00:35:01 Speaker 4

Wow.

00:35:04 Sam Horton

I think there is this Hindu construction or architectural method.

00:35:07 Sam Horton

Cool man.

00:35:08 Sam Horton

There and after which it's based, so it's it's not using any modern building techniques, no, uh, no steel, no metal, no wood or stone.

00:35:16 Ben

Wow, wow.

00:35:17 Sam Horton

And it is the biggest Hindu temple outside of India.

00:35:21 Sam Horton

What which you wouldn't think would be in Neasden in North London.

00:35:25 Ben

This this building.

00:35:27 Ben

Is one of London's most amazing buildings.

00:35:30 Ben

And it feels like.

00:35:30 Ben

It should be.

00:35:31 Ben

Yeah in India.

00:35:32 Ben

Not off the grey.

00:35:34 Ben

Horrible North circular.

00:35:37 Nicky

So firstly want to know why pre landmarks you guys went there and it doesn't seem like the sort.

00:35:43 Nicky

Of thing you would do.

00:35:44 Nicky

Is how old are you? So I'm 24.

00:35:47 Sam Horton

Well, let's throw it back to 2015 and I think myself and Alex and Ben Williams seconded, is at Ben Solomon, for, you know, a night or two up in his up in his North London digs. And you know, we'd had a an interesting night, probably at the Hendon or equivalent. You know, some nice nice nice pub in in an interesting part of North London.

00:36:03 Ben

It might be that night.

00:36:08 Sam Horton

And then on the on the Sunday, I think we felt well.

00:36:11 Sam Horton

What what's called what's called to do around here, and if you Google like things to do in North London.

00:36:17 Ben

Yeah.

00:36:18 Sam Horton

If you look on time out, this place is one of the seven Wonders of London and hydrated by it by time out.

00:36:25 Sam Horton

So I think that's probably how we found it.

00:36:27 Sam Horton

We're very basic, we just saw OK. This is like 2 miles from where Ben lives.

00:36:27 Ben

Amazing amazing.

00:36:32 Sam Horton

Let's let's go check it out because we've got nothing better to do.

00:36:35 Sam Horton

We're really hungover so.

00:36:36 Sam Horton

You're going to a.

00:36:37 Sam Horton

Peaceful religious retreat in the busy in the busyness of city life.

00:36:43 Sam Horton

It's a nice relaxing way to spend our day.

00:36:46 Nicky

So it was genuinely because you thought let's go see something nice and.

00:36:50 Sam Horton

It was this was this was Landmarking Nicky in its purest form.

00:36:55 Nicky

It actually did.

00:36:55 Sam Horton

This was not landmarking in the context of trying to achieve the goal of.

00:37:00 Sam Horton

The 500 landmarks of.

00:37:02 Ben

Brexit, but aren't you a bit worried that this was the event which?

00:37:07 Ben

In my subconscious, planted a seed.

00:37:09 Ben

Which made the push.

00:37:10 Sam Horton

Then because the mic was given to you by your mother as a random Christmas present shortly after this event, years into this offense nearly a year to the day after this event.

00:37:10 Ben

Maybe want to do more.

00:37:15 Sam Horton

Maybe a year, maybe a year ago.

00:37:17 Ben

It was it was Christmas.

00:37:20 Sam Horton

But I don't think she was there.

00:37:22 Sam Horton

At least she's not in the pictures unless she was taking them.

00:37:25 Nicky

All the same.

00:37:26 Sam Horton

I don't think this did it.

00:37:27 Nicky

I've done a bit of research because I to be honest I'm quite.

00:37:32 Nicky

I have limited knowledge of Hinduism and this temple.

00:37:36 Nicky

These type of temples.

00:37:37 Nicky

What's interesting is that this temple isn't actually that old.

00:37:42 Nicky

So I think it's worth slightly.

00:37:43 Speaker 4

Smith and.

00:37:44 Nicky

Of being on a historical list, but the actual completion date is is something like 1990.

00:37:52 Speaker 4

Thanks.

00:37:52 Sam Horton

95.5

00:37:53 Ben

Yeah, oh, it's so recent.

00:37:56 Nicky

It took about three years.

00:37:58 Nicky

I believe.

00:37:58 Nicky

They actually had workshops in India where people made the pieces of the building and then shipped movements of Southampton over the course of three years and pieced it together like a jigsaw.

00:38:05 Sam Horton

Yeah they did.

00:38:10 Sam Horton

It's an incredible architectural story, nearly 3000 tons of Bulgarian limestone, 2000 tons of Italian marble, all shipped to India, carved by a team of 1600.

00:38:11 Nicky

Wow.

00:38:20 Sam Horton

Doctors in a workshop for this dedicated purpose ship to Neasden and then and then they built it and it is what I love about this is it was a community project, so it's entirely funded by the Hindu community that raised the funds for this building in North London and volunteered their time to actually build and put it together and.

00:38:37 Speaker 4

Wow, wow.

00:38:41 Ben

Wow.

00:38:42 Sam Horton

The largest ever concrete poured foundation in the UK, which is an interesting and little known fact, wow.

00:38:46 Nicky

Oh my God.

00:38:48 Speaker 4

Wow.

00:38:48 Sam Horton

Four and half 1000 tons of concrete at down in 24 hours. That's a lot of concrete.

00:38:52 Nicky

Like I mean, I think I was reading on this. They had a timeline on their website where basically it's relatively recent that Hindi faith came to the UK so 1960s they had an office somewhere in London I think he said Baker Street or something like that.

00:39:03 Speaker 4

Wow.

00:39:08 Nicky

And then sometime around the 80s they they basically set up their their worship in a warehouse in Neasden.

00:39:16 Ben

Oh my God.

00:39:17 Ben

Oh my God.

00:39:18 Nicky

Crappy old warehouse and that is where the site of this temple is now.

00:39:23 Nicky

They they said, actually, we're going to.

00:39:24 Speaker 4

Wow.

00:39:25 Nicky

We're going to.

00:39:26 Speaker 4

Yes.

00:39:27 Sam Horton

The building itself was built in one go, but they're the presence of this religious community and their establishment in North London developed over a period of probably a decade or more 15 years, perhaps before they actually built this temple.

00:39:39 Sam Horton

And wow, I really like.

00:39:41 Sam Horton

I really like that.

00:39:42 Sam Horton

I think you know it speaks to you.

00:39:45 Sam Horton

Hard work, community values, multiculturalism.

00:39:47 Sam Horton

In that part of London, which you know North London, you think Jewish community, but also has an enormous Hindu community.

00:39:49 Speaker 4

Yeah, yeah.

00:39:53 Sam Horton

There's a big Muslim community living living side.

00:39:54 Speaker 4

Yeah.

00:39:56 Sam Horton

By side, I think it's one of the things I love about London.

00:39:58 Sam Horton

It's a very kind of international cosmopolitan.

00:40:01 Sam Horton

You know multi faith multi background place to be and this is you know one of the examples of that.

00:40:06 Sam Horton

I like you know I love and I hate the fact that this amazing building sits literally on the North circular right.

00:40:12 Ben

It's it, it is still our face.

00:40:13 Sam Horton

It's so it's it's such a weird thing.

00:40:16 Sam Horton

But when you step in there, I don't know if you remember it well, Ben, but it is such a place of like quiet and calm and peace.

00:40:22 Sam Horton

And yeah, I mean it's it transports you away from where you are.

00:40:22 Ben

That's right.

00:40:26 Ben

It it does, and I guess.

00:40:28 Ben

What's special about it being where it is is because that's where the community.

00:40:32 Ben

It's it's a if it.

00:40:33 Ben

If it was anywhere else, it wouldn't function as the clean space that it needs to be, which is which is quite special and I there because I did live nearby.

00:40:41 Ben

It been to the fantastic Indian restaurant next door a couple of times over the years and I thoroughly thoroughly recommend it.

00:40:50 Ben

If you're looking for Indian food.

00:40:52 Ben

No, that's London.

00:40:54 Nicky

This denominations of Hinduism has temples all around the world and I think they all look very similar. So not in America there's LA.

00:41:02 Sam Horton

Yeah.

00:41:04 Ben

It's a style.

00:41:06 Sam Horton

It's a particular architectural style.

00:41:08 Sam Horton

This this company has it designed accord designed according to their Shilpa Shaastra switches.

00:41:14 Sam Horton

A verdict text that develops Hindu architecture.

00:41:18 Sam Horton

So there is a like a traditional way of building Hindu temples.

00:41:22 Sam Horton

This temple follows that that architectural blueprint.

00:41:25 Nicky

And this one, as well as a lot of the others, have a huge staircase coming out of the front of them.

00:41:31 Ben

Yes it does.

00:41:31 Ben

It does.

00:41:31 Nicky

Yes, yes, and.

00:41:33 Sam Horton

Yeah, it wears you out getting into the temple in the 1st.

00:41:36 Speaker 4

Yeah.

00:41:36 Nicky

Place waiting to pray off that that's right.

00:41:39 Sam Horton

I need to just sit down and meditate and just be calm as cool, beautiful, dark building.

00:41:45 Nicky

Yeah, when I when you look at these photos or if you're there in person, I feel like the striking thing is the intricacy of all the carvings around the whole thing inside and out and.

00:41:49 Speaker 4

Yeah.

00:41:56 Sam Horton

This is what those 1600s you know. Men and women in India would we're doing and we're we're carving.

00:42:01 Speaker 4

Yeah.

00:42:01 Nicky

No there.

00:42:02 Sam Horton

Like individual individual pieces of marble, I think each piece of marble they got from Italy was about a ton and each one was individually hand carved into this into a piece of this temple and then assembled.

00:42:15 Sam Horton

It's just.

00:42:16 Sam Horton

It's absolutely mind-blowing.

00:42:17 Sam Horton

It's like going to somewhere like the Taj Mahal or the Alhambra, where it's all very.

00:42:22 Sam Horton

Intricate hand carved marble and you're just taken away by the beauty of the art.

00:42:24 Speaker 4

Yeah.

00:42:26 Sam Horton

I mean, it's it's stunning.

00:42:28 Nicky

So it kinda provide.

00:42:29 Nicky

Me of Angkor Wat.

00:42:31 Speaker 4

Yes yes yes yes ah.

00:42:31 Nicky

Cambodia.

00:42:33 Nicky

My cell phone.

00:42:33 Sam Horton

Is that is that Hindi is that Hindu or is that Buddhist?

00:42:36 Nicky

I looked it up because I'm thinking I'm sure that's a Buddhist temple like Buddhist temple and there's monks there, so that can't be right, but it really reminds me of it, so I looked it up and it was originally a Hindu temple.

00:42:49 Sam Horton

Right, interesting.

00:42:50 Nicky

We're talking 7th century or something for about 100 years. It was a Hindu temple and then it got gradually converted into the Buddhist term.

00:42:51 Speaker 4

Yeah.

00:42:57 Nicky

Cool.

00:42:58 Nicky

Which I didn't know, but it now makes sense because it has that similar look to it.

00:43:00 Speaker 4

Wow, OK.

00:43:03 Sam Horton

Yeah, I think.

00:43:04 Sam Horton

What's whilst it is a modern building?

00:43:07 Sam Horton

The architectural principles on which it were based, dating back to like the 4th century or something crazy like that. So it's it's a modern building, but with very solid grounding in history so that building could have been built to exactly the same specification design if it was built 700 years ago.

00:43:13 Ben

Asking, fighting.

00:43:26 Ben

I love this song Sam.

00:43:28 Ben

I don't think and Nicky might know if I'm wrong, but I don't think there's a Hindu temple in Clive assets book.

00:43:33 Ben

There are synagogues there.

00:43:34 Ben

Are there are churches or Boyd churches, and there's even a mosque.

00:43:36 Speaker 4

It's not even.

00:43:36 Speaker 4

It's not.

00:43:38 Ben

It's even ask it, but I don't think there are any Hindu temples I love.

00:43:41 Ben

Hi.

00:43:41 Ben

00:43:42 Ben

I love that this amazing architecture.

00:43:46 Ben

Architectural.

00:43:47 Ben

Phenomenon is is inoltre.

00:43:49 Sam Horton

Yeah, well then it's a real mess from Clive because he's got the Mars Bar factory in there, but he's not got a Hindi temple. And this but perhaps he wrote the book before 1995 when it was when it was still so he didn't. He didn't say he's got no excuse.

00:44:00 Ben

He did, he didn't, he's talking.

00:44:03 Sam Horton

Excuse me like this, this hits.

00:44:06 Sam Horton

This hits a couple of key criteria.

00:44:07 Sam Horton

It's built in my lifetime.

00:44:10 Sam Horton

And somewhere that I've visited, it's somewhere that I distinctly remember.

00:44:10 Speaker 4

Huh?

00:44:15 Sam Horton

You know, being kind of transported out of myself as if it was, you know, two.

00:44:19 Sam Horton

Yeah period in history.

00:44:20 Sam Horton

Or you know just to another place in different culture, a different country, whatever it might be.

00:44:20 Speaker 4

Umm?

00:44:26 Sam Horton

Uh, we did it did it with some great friends and I didn't do it for a competitive landmarking.

00:44:31 Sam Horton

Yeah, I I did it 'cause I just wanted to visit this really cool place.

00:44:35 Sam Horton

So that's why it's special to me.

00:44:36 Sam Horton

You go there for.

00:44:38 Sam Horton

So then now you go there for the experience of being in that place and experiencing it, because there's less than 20 years of history to it.

00:44:46 Nicky

True.

00:44:46 Sam Horton

And you know, maybe you're getting familiar with a broader historical context of Hinduism, and you know Hinduism.

00:44:54 Sam Horton

You know establishing itself in the UK, but that's not what that experience about.

00:44:58 Sam Horton

It's simply about being there, appreciating the beauty of the building.

00:45:01 Sam Horton

And yeah, just relaxing in.

00:45:04 Nicky

The moment the hungover moment.

00:45:06 Sam Horton

They have to be hungry that that was a Zach.

00:45:09 Nicky

So obviously we know that you have actually already been there together and you did take photo.

00:45:15 Nicky

The very last thing we ask is what photo would you take?

00:45:18 Nicky

You've already taken photos, so would you take a different photo?

00:45:22 Nicky

I'm assuming you can't really take photos inside.

00:45:25 Sam Horton

You're not allowed to take photos inside, which is why we did not come the photo.

00:45:26 Speaker 4

Yeah.

00:45:28

Oh, really.

00:45:29 Sam Horton

I'd take it I I've sent to you.

00:45:31 Sam Horton

I would obviously take it a lot better than I have taken it, and with a much a far superior camera to whichever version of the iPhone I was using back then.

00:45:38 Ben

You

00:45:39 Sam Horton

But there is something.

00:45:39 Ben

Need a tripod?

00:45:39 Ben

Sam, you desperately need time.

00:45:41 Ben

Right?

00:45:41 Ben

00:45:41 Sam Horton

There is a view.

00:45:42 Sam Horton

There is a view when you're approaching the temple head on, you're seeing it through set of pillars and this majestic building, rising with an amazing.

00:45:51 Sam Horton

You know, early winter morning back.

00:45:53 Sam Horton

I mean, it's it's.

00:45:54 Sam Horton

It's a beautiful picture done better that picture would be the picture.

00:45:58 Nicky

I love it.

00:45:59 Nicky

No, no theatrics involved.

00:46:01 Nicky

Just beautiful temple.

00:46:02 Sam Horton

Yeah, just appreciate it for.

00:46:04 Sam Horton

What it says.

00:46:04 Sam Horton

A very impressive and relatively modern building.

00:46:07 Speaker 4

Oh

00:46:08 Ben

Sam, thank you.

00:46:09 Ben

So much for joining us for this episode.

00:46:12 Ben

It's been.

00:46:12 Ben

It's been an absolute delight.

00:46:14 Sam Horton

Thank you for having me.

00:46:15 Sam Horton

It's been really enjoyable actually talking about this stuff and reflecting on some very happy memories.

00:46:21 Sam Horton

So thanks for having me on board.