The tables are turned for this episode with Nicky's sister Jenny as the podcast guest. Jenny secretly loves being dragged on her sisters-friends landmarking trips and actually hosted them in Durham back in 2018, which is the focus of this episode. Jenny's a HUGE theatre nerd, so it may not be surprising that this comes up in the later part of the show.
You can now buy us a coffee if you enjoy our episodes - https://www.buymeacoffee.com/benjaminsbritain
We'd love you to subscribe and rate us on when you listen to your favourite podcasts. Follow us at @benjaminsbritainpod on Instagram for social content and updates.
The tables are turned for this episode with Nicky's sister Jenny as the podcast guest. Jenny secretly loves being dragged on her sisters-friends landmarking trips and actually hosted them in Durham back in 2018, which is the focus of this episode. Jenny's a HUGE theatre nerd, so it may not be surprising that this comes up in the later part of the show.
You can now buy us a coffee if you enjoy our episodes - https://www.buymeacoffee.com/benjaminsbritain
We'd love you to subscribe and rate us on when you listen to your favourite podcasts. Follow us at @benjaminsbritainpod on Instagram for social content and updates.
Transcript
00:00:00 Ben
Since 2016, I've been on a mission to visit every site described in the book Landmarks of Britain with 500 places that made our history.
00:00:08 Ben
In this podcast, we'll be discussing the castles, caves, cathedrals and country homes visited along the way with those who have joined me. As always, I'm here with Nicky Pavitt. Hello, hello.
00:00:21 Ben
How are you Nicky?
00:00:23 Nicky
I'm very well. I'm excited to introduce today's guest.
00:00:27 Ben
Go on, tell us who's up today.
00:00:30 Nicky
Today's guest is no other than my sister Jenny
00:00:33 Ben
No way double Pavitts today.
00:00:36 Nicky
I know it's gonna be crazy and she will probably say that I've coerced her into all of these things, but you.
00:00:43 Nicky
Know it's all good.
00:00:44 Ben
No no no no no.
00:00:45 Ben
She's loved it, I mean.
00:00:48 Ben
As you'll hear she was living in an
00:00:50 Ben
Area with lots of landmarks which were quite out of the way for us, so it was.
00:00:53 Ben
It was very convenient. It all worked out nicely
00:00:56 Nicky
Exactly, but yeah, it's a it's a fun episode. It's one for the theatre nerds and the northerners.
00:01:04 Ben
Yeah, shout out to our Northern fans this this.
00:01:05 Ben
One is for you.
00:01:07 Nicky
And we we had some.
00:01:09 Nicky
Really good feedback on our.
00:01:10 Nicky
First episode this season. It was by.
00:01:14 Nicky
The most successful in the first week or two that we've ever had.
00:01:20 Ben
Chris Jones on Brunel's Thames Tunnel. Water reaction. People loved it and it was great for us that more people are listening to the podcast than ever before, so happy days.
00:01:31 Ben
A future guest on the pod even told us that they were inspired by the podcast that we did with Chris and wants to go visit the Thames Tunnel herself.
00:01:38 Ben
And that's exactly what we want from these episodes is for people to go and appreciate and enjoy these sites just like we have so very happy with that. But yeah, Jenny, Alternative Landmark is a nice one and.
00:01:50 Ben
Definitely would love to go there with you and.
00:01:52 Ben
Your sister, at some point in the future.
00:01:54 Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah.
00:01:54 Ben
Because there's always an.
00:01:57 Ben
Excuse to go to this particular place.
00:01:58 Nicky
Let's book tickets.
00:02:00
Is that a spoiler alert?
00:02:02 Ben
Spoiler alert.
00:02:04 Ben
Because actually I have started doing a lot of our guests alternative landmarks with them, and that's quite fun.
00:02:10 Ben
Uhm, so you know, on my way to complete that set as well.
00:02:13 Nicky
Great, well, I think we should get straight to it.
00:02:17 Ben
Cool, hope you enjoy.
00:02:24 Speaker 4
Come right along Benjamin Britain, get to know the places and spaces around you.
00:02:34 Ben
Welcome back to the Benjamin Britain Podcast. For those who are new to what we're doing, this is the podcast where we explore all the sites in Clive.
00:02:43 Ben
Aslett's the 500 landmarks of Britain, a book which I have been the last five years visiting every site that's included inside it, and we invite different guests on the podcast or have been visiting these landmarks with this.
00:02:54 Ben
To discuss them, and Nicky, who's our guest this week?
00:02:58 Nicky
Well, our guest this week is someone I know quite well. Ben better than you actually, which is, it's rare for this podcast, but as your your mom and your brother had been on before we thought it was only fair that we should have the only other Pavitt to have gone to any of Ben's landmarks.
00:03:19 Nicky
And that is my sister Jenny hey hello.
00:03:21 Ben
Welcome, Jenny.
00:03:24 Nicky
Could be on the podcast.
00:03:26 Nicky
Yeah, you are. There's lots of people dying to be on it, so yeah, you are very lucky.
00:03:30 Ben
There is a long list of people who do want to be on it in Venice. Jenny, we're delighted to have you.
00:03:36 Nicky
Privileged position.
00:03:36 Jenny
I'm right after the big league.
00:03:38 Nicky
Mm-hmm, so I know Jenny because we were, you know, forced together by our genetic code.
00:03:47 Ben
He didn't have a choice.
00:03:49 Nicky
Yeah, I mean I.
00:03:50 Nicky
Seven and a half, seven and three quarter.
00:03:53 Nicky
Perfect life without her.
00:03:57 Nicky
And then she came along and took my bedroom.
00:04:02 Nicky
Obviously Jenny this is a history podcast. It is and I have talked many, many times about our various day trips that Dad has had to drag us on when we were kids.
00:04:14 Nicky
I mean when?
00:04:15 Nicky
You were a kid. I was like a teenager so it's kind of a bit different, but I don't know. I'm wondering whether you had any specific.
00:04:22 Nicky
Memories of historical trips we had when we.
00:04:25 Nicky
Younger I don't know. I feel like I have less of the like remembering going to specific places and more of the like constantly.
00:04:34 Nicky
Being aware of Dad having random documentaries on all the time or like going into your bedroom and you had written like the date of something in the Vietnam War on your bin.
00:04:48 Ben
Did that work as revision?
00:04:50 Nicky
The Tet Offensive 1968.
00:04:52 Nicky
Wait, yeah.
00:04:54 Jenny
I think is it you tell me it's. Is it still there? I can't see it at the moment. I mean if there's it's beteta fence. If is in 1968, the answer is yes, it did work.
00:05:05 Nicky
I'm going to Google it.
00:05:07 Jenny
But yeah, I just remember it was when I ended up getting to a level history and we got to the Tet offensive. My only association with the offensive been.
00:05:16 Nicky
I was right.
00:05:16 Ben
Nikki holding up a phone it is 1968.
00:05:18 Nicky
See it worked right. It was perfect revision. She's just a shame it didn't do very.
00:05:23 Nicky
Well on that exam.
00:05:24 Jenny
But anyway, I felt like my childhood like.
00:05:27 Jenny
History associations are like.
00:05:29 Jenny
You and you and Mike just like doing history revision and me hearing random things I think was probably what a lot of it was.
00:05:37 Ben
Because because Jenny, you know Nikki has been to almost every site in my book without me because her story always is. My dad took me here when I was a kid, but maybe yeah.
00:05:49 Nicky
When I was.
00:05:50 Nicky
A kid though. That's the thing Jenny doesn't remember 'cause she was like, a basically an amoeba at that point
00:05:57 Nicky
So you don't have that many memories of actual historical landmarks as a kid.
00:06:01 Jenny
Not loads, no. That is a real shame, no. I have a few like with Granny and Granddad. Oh yeah, go on, I feel like they've taken me to some like I feel like National Trust kind of kind of houses type thing.
00:06:15 Ben
It is mostly Granny and Grandads who have National Trust memberships apart from me, but just bring it bringing down the average age of your national.
00:06:22 Ben
Trust member yeah yeah.
00:06:24 Nicky
So you can't remember a single place you went to as a kid.
00:06:27 Jenny
I don't know. I mean, I just. I mean I do remember Granny and Granddad taking me to the globe like half term or something, and that's like my kind of pilgrimage
00:06:36 Nicky
Image so, uh, that explains it. This is probably a good point to explain that Jenny didn't study history. Do you only have?
00:06:45 Ben
That's excuse me.
00:06:46 Nicky
I know, I know.
00:06:49 Jenny
I went for just plain old English literature.
00:06:53 Nicky
And then you're currently studying at the moment, aren't.
00:06:55 Jenny
You I am.
00:06:56 Jenny
Theatre and performance studies.
00:06:58 Nicky
Ooh edgy, and that explains the the love of the globe exact.
00:07:02 Nicky
Exactly, do you care about history? Do you like history?
0:7:34 Jenny Yeah, I do. I did it up to a level and I think also the English lit and also the theatre vibe we always have. Like the underlying history as well.
00:07:16 Ben
So when you, when you heard that your big sister was studying history at university, did you not think Oh my God, that is so cool.
00:07:23 Ben
That is exactly what I want to do when.
00:07:25 Ben
I grow up, but.
00:07:26 Ben
She you weren't quite inspired in there.
00:07:29 Jenny
I feel like it more in some ways has the opposite effect of being like. Let me do the opposite to what my siblings are.
00:07:35 Nicky
Doing the opposite would have been maths
00:07:38 Jenny
Yeah, but none of us are like that way inclined.
00:07:41 Nicky
Excuse me, I love maths.
00:07:46 Ben
Thank God you didnt Study math.
00:07:47 Ben
Nikki, our paths would never have crossed to be studied maths but that.
00:07:50 Nicky
They might have done.
00:07:51 Ben
Would be a disaster.
00:07:52 Nicky
But probably not well.
00:07:54 Nicky
I'd have a math podcast instead.
00:07:57 Ben
Nikki numbers
00:07:58 Nicky
Wow, I'd be like Rachel.
00:08:00 Nicky
Rachel Riley, but like less good significantly.
00:08:06 Nicky
And so Jen, do you have a favourite period of history?
00:08:10 Jenny
I mean, I did a lot of Victorian stuff, a lot of Victorian politics are quite like that. 'cause I think it's also like Dickens era for me is quite nice when stuff starts to get a bit more like meaty and they're all having loads of depressing problems which are quite fun to write about, of course.
00:08:30 Jenny
So yeah, I'm like Victorian era is good and then Cold War. I feel like is also a awesome uh classic. Oh, I feel like that's quite a common favourite.
00:08:39 Nicky
Is this because you like the musical Chess?
00:08:42 Nicky
No, but I was a bonus because I swear everything you like. It revolves around whether it's got a musical, so it will work both ways.
00:08:50 Jenny
It's either I like that period of history, more 'cause there's a musical, or I get really excited 'cause there's a musical about something I already like. Hence the fact my undergrad disc was about. Oliver makes sense.
00:09:01 Ben
No, it wasn't, that's amazing.
00:09:04 Jenny
It was Oliver and Matilda.
00:09:06 Ben
You had a cool dissertation. What were?
00:09:08 Ben
You exploring and there was those productions.
00:09:10 Jenny
Basically, just like the idea, the theme of childhoods but then also how like the books are, adapt how they're adapted from being booked into being musicals and like what that changes with them basically, and then Henry bird from Bake Off who was in my year at Zara on my course, did his dissertation a year after me and.
00:09:30 Jenny
Copy me.
00:09:32 Nicky
He actually did and then Matilda. The musical poetry posted about it on Instagram and Jenny was furious. Absolutely raging.
00:09:41 Jenny
He posted about his.
00:09:42 Jenny
Dissertation and then literally everybody I knew suddenly messaged me and was like Oh my God. Henry's copied your dissertation plagiarism.
00:09:50 Ben
This is the platform to.
00:09:51 Ben
Call him out. Finally, we can. We can expose him.
00:09:55 Jenny
Yeah, so Henry bird. I really hope he cited me 'cause I I laid all the groundwork for making the department happy for you to do a dissertation about that.
00:10:03 Nicky
Oh God, that's funny.
00:10:05 Nicky
OK.
00:10:06 Nicky
Hopefully he didn't plagiarise, but still.
00:10:07 Ben
It's just this is going to be on the Daily Mail when this the day after.
00:10:10 Ben
This podcast comes out.
00:10:11 Nicky
Love it.
00:10:14 Nicky
So we've covered the fact that you don't remember any historical trips when you were a kid. Great.
00:10:20 Jenny
'cause they all got done with.
00:10:21 Jenny
You first, yeah.
00:10:23 Ben
Yeah, yeah. Nicky Nicky soaked soaked up all your dad's enthusiasm.
00:10:30 Nicky
You just got left with the dregs of the things that dad didn't like.
00:10:35 Nicky
Exactly, we've covered that you don't remember any historical trips that you studied English and not history at little traitor and dumb, but we didn't say where you went to university. Probably is essential. I went to Durham.
00:10:53 Ben
In general, you have you. You've done a few landmarks. You're certainly aware of Benjamin Britain. I mean, but do you remember Nikki saying that, you know we met once when you were about 12 years old and then we re met again when you were about 19, but?
00:11:08 Ben
Here on the Grapevine. About this. Benjamin Britain Historic landmark activity that that Nikki was was starting to enjoy quite a lot.
00:11:15 Jenny
I had and I think my main association is just how competitive Nicki is.
00:11:21 Jenny
And then it got to the point where she was talking about this. Well, one of my friends is on this number and if they do those ones, then they're gonna take over me. So I need to make sure that I get these ones done.
00:11:32 Ben
Jenny, I can confirm that nothing has changed.
00:11:35 Ben
That is still Nicky's attitude.
00:11:36 Nicky
This is absolute slander.
00:11:38 Ben
So good your impression of it was pure competition. There's someone to beat here. There's there's a prize to.
00:11:44 Ben
Be won and.
00:11:45 Jenny
Yeah, no sense of like cultural enrichment or anything.
00:11:51 Ben
I like this character so.
00:11:51 Nicky
I'm the one that did a history degree.
00:11:53 Ben
I can recall, but can you recall Jenny what your first, the first landmark that you were dragged along to was?
00:11:59 Jenny
Yes, and I think drag dragged is a good way to say it. 'cause I was fully coerced into this.
00:12:05 Jenny
And as we all are just to set the same, Nikki and I were going on holiday the next day.
00:12:05 Ben
It's good.
00:12:06
It's just.
00:12:13 Jenny
I was sat on the train with a massive half empty suitcase ready for Nikki to put all of her stuff into and at which point Nikki messages me and goes. Do you want to come to a historical site with me and my friends?
00:12:26 Jenny
At which point no choice, because if I play no Nick, he's gonna bully me into submission.
00:12:35 Jenny
So I agree, and aside from the ones I've heard, that electric like a tree in the middle of a field, I think it has to be better than that
00:12:43 Ben
Obviously Nikki would have told you about that one.
00:12:46 Jenny
I think it has to be up there with being possibly one of the worst ones that must be.
00:12:52 Jenny
And 'cause it was electric Ave.
00:12:56 Nicky
In Brixton and was literally just like a sign.
00:13:00 Ben
Yeah it that that what a poor introduction to the world of landmarks for you, Jenny, I'm so sorry.
00:13:06 Jenny
It was I. It's quite surprising I've done more since.
00:13:10 Ben
Electric Ave we should say is an amazing place but.
00:13:14 Ben
In terms of.
00:13:15 Ben
What we were.
00:13:15 Ben
There you know.
00:13:16 Ben
For historical landmark sightings.
00:13:18 Ben
We did literally just find a street sign and take a picture and we didn't. We didn't fully.
00:13:22 Ben
Embrace the history.
00:13:24 Nicky
Yeah, I mean there's a lot to be said about Brixton and its history, and that could be a whole probably a whole podcast in itself, just about Brixton. But Electric Ave itself is famous because it was the 1st St that had St lights.
00:13:37 Ben
Correct, and was there a street light in our photo?
00:13:41 Nicky
I don't know, but they I know now there's like rainbow coloured lights which are quite cool along the streets. It's very interesting and in cool place to to be.
00:13:51 Ben
But I like a landmark where we spend more time in the pub than at the landmark. That's that's.
00:13:56 Ben
A big assist.
00:13:56 Nicky
Always, yeah we were in a Prince of Wales, weren't we?
00:14:00 Nicky
Yeah, which we all know that.
00:14:01 Nicky
Then loves anything called the Prince of Wales.
00:14:05 Ben
Any practical difference fails. We can't walk past.
00:14:07 Ben
It we've got.
00:14:07 Ben
To go in, yeah.
00:14:11 Nicky
Right, so Jen, you have told us that you went to Durham. You told us about your first landmark trip, but that means you've been to more.
00:14:18 Nicky
And that means you didn't choose Electric Ave for your historical landmark to discuss today, so could you tell us what you have?
00:14:26 Jenny
Reason I've actually chosen somewhere that I went to in my.
00:14:29 Jenny
First week of.
00:14:30 Jenny
University as every Durham University student does. And that is Durham cathedral.
00:14:35 Ben
Excellent choice.
00:14:37 Nicky
So why did you choose it?
00:14:39 Jenny
The thing I have now realised and I think I properly realised this over the summer.
00:14:44 Jenny
That I have been spoilt by Durham Cathedral, oh.
00:14:48 Jenny
Because I've been in a lot of times you.
00:14:48 Ben
Right?
00:14:51 Jenny
Go in your first week at university, 'cause that's where you have.
00:14:55 Jenny
What they call your like matriculation ceremony. So it's you like formally joining the university for the first time, right?
00:15:02 Jenny
And then anytime anyone comes to visit you, it's basically like a compulsory thing and you have to take Cathedral. Yep.
00:15:11 Speaker 3
Of course.
00:15:15 Jenny
So I've been in there many many times.
00:15:19 Jenny
And what I've now realised is that I'm almost incapable of appreciating other cathedrals.
00:15:25 Jenny
Oh, because this one so great exactly.
00:15:30 Jenny
I went to.
00:15:32 Jenny
Norwich over the summer and I said oh go.
00:15:35 Jenny
To Norwich cathedral.
00:15:37 Jenny
And then I went in and I was like... I mean.
00:15:43 Jenny
It's it's nice.
00:15:44 Ben
So you're such a cathedral snob now?
00:15:47 Nicky
Yeah, that's what Durham does too.
00:15:51 Speaker 3
Ha ha.
00:15:51 Nicky
Turns you into a snob??
00:15:54 Nicky
Oh, I see.
00:15:56 Jenny
It is, it's just a top notch cathedral and.
00:16:00 Jenny
It also has benefits other cathedrals don't.
00:16:05 Jenny
I mean its relevance within popular culture.
00:16:09 Jenny
It is also great attraction and being in two major film franchises.
00:16:10 Speaker 3
OK.
00:16:15 Nicky
So I feel like that bumps it up quite a.
00:16:18 Nicky
Lot to begin with.
00:16:19 Ben
It's always always good when a landmark pops up in a film. It's now a particular excitement to me.
00:16:26 Nicky
And do you know what they the?
00:16:28 Nicky
The reasons are been.
00:16:29 Nicky
Which films it's been in?
00:16:32 Ben
I well, I know because they're some of the biggest films of all time, right?
00:16:38 Nicky
I think I might have one that you may.
00:16:40 Nicky
Not know about as.
00:16:41 Nicky
Well, I think I know what it is.
00:16:42 Speaker 3
Right?
00:16:43 Ben
Jenny tell us
00:16:45 Jenny
So the two obvious ones? Or is it the first two Harry Potter?
00:16:48 Jenny
Films, yeah.
00:16:50 Jenny
Huh, so it was mcgonagall's classroom. It was also the Forbidden corridor in their first year as well.
00:17:00 Jenny
So classic classic scenes, but also more recently, and this is quite upsetting because I missed out on potentially bumping into this famous actor, or about six months five months.
00:17:16 Jenny
Chris Hemsworth has been too damn.
00:17:18 Jenny
Clean yeah yes.
00:17:21 Jenny
Because it featured in Avengers end game as well, oh.
00:17:24 Ben
Yes, but just which is the biggest film.
00:17:27 Ben
Of all time.
00:17:29 Nicky
Exactly so.
00:17:33 Jenny
Yeah, what location prime location? Apparently it just had very nice nice pillars.
00:17:40 Ben
Yeah, so Marvel fans listening. It's the but it's the scenes when Thor goes.
00:17:44 Ben
Back to Asgard.
00:17:45 Ben
And yeah, those pillars in the shot are instantly recognisable as down cathedral because.
00:17:51 Jenny
High high quality pillars.
00:17:51 Ben
They've got these.
00:17:53 Ben
The finest quality buildings that they've got, like zigzag shapes on them don't? They jet and it's the only place I've seen that particular pattern on a on a cathedral pillar. It's Durham. It just screams diagram.
00:17:58 Speaker 3
They did.
00:18:06 Jenny
It's one of the only Marvel films.
00:18:08 Jenny
I have seen.
00:18:09 Ben
It's actually a terrible one to start with because it's like this, yeah?
00:18:11 Nicky
Yes, it is the end.
00:18:13 Jenny
It makes no sense.
00:18:16
I think it took us to.
00:18:17 Ben
Where the Great Hall in Harry Potter is right?
00:18:19 Ben
Or am I making that up? There was definitely some durhams full of Harry Potter filming locations.
00:18:24 Ben
Isn't isn't it?
00:18:24 Jenny
So it was originally they were going to film the Great Hall in 'cause Darren split up into different colleges so they were going down the Great Hall in University College, which is literally Durham Castle. And they were gonna film the Great Hall there. But yeah, university timetabling clashed.
00:18:32 Speaker 3
Right?
00:18:33 Nicky
Wingardium Leviosa
00:18:44 Jenny
With filming, yeah.
00:18:45 Jenny
So had it not been for students actually needing to use their dining room, and that would have also been in the.
00:18:51 Nicky
In the Harry Potter films.
00:18:53 Ben
That is such a mistake on the part of the university administrator.
00:18:58 Ben
What years were you at Durham University?
00:19:00 Jenny
2017 to 2020. So it was an unfortunate end.
00:19:03 Ben
That's right.
00:19:05 Nicky
Yeah, because there should have been one more occasion where you went to the cathedral. Is that not right?
00:19:12 Jenny
This is just like the slight bitter resentment I currently have, which is the only.
00:19:17 Jenny
Thing that is dampening my love.
00:19:19 Jenny
For Durham Cathedral the fact that I should have had.
00:19:21 Jenny
A graduation ceremony there I.
00:19:23 Ben
Oh no.
00:19:24 Jenny
I am now a third of the way through my Masters degree after taking.
00:19:29 Jenny
It year out.
00:19:30 Jenny
And still have not had my graduation.
00:19:33 Ben
Oh no.
00:19:39 Jenny
We're waiting it out.
00:19:40 Nicky
Is it likely to happen?
00:19:43 Jenny
I'm hoping it's still going to happen. I think it's meant to be April.
00:19:48 Jenny
But it was meant to be April I think last year as well. And it.
00:19:51 Jenny
Was also meant.
00:19:52 Jenny
To be September and you know.
00:19:54 Speaker 3
OK.
00:19:55 Jenny
French has been a lot of date.
00:19:56 Ben
Will you return for graduation even though it might be?
00:20:00 Ben
Two years after the fact.
00:20:02 Jenny
Oh absolutely.
00:20:04 Ben
Yes, OK.
00:20:05 Jenny
It's something else just for the fact that I can get great graduation photos out of it.
0:20:10 Nicky
I honestly thought that you're about to say, if only for the fact that I can graduate at a Benjamin Britten landmark.
00:20:18 Jenny
Second, all bragging rights, I mean I.
00:20:19 Speaker 3
I mean.
00:20:20 Ben
That's the dream.
00:20:22 Nicky
Have graduated from a Benjamins Britain landmark. Not quite done Cathedral calibre but the the South Bank centre IN London
00:20:30 Jenny
Assuming I passed my masters. I believe my graduation should also be in the same place, so theoretically I could graduate from two landmarks.
00:20:40 Ben
They're just showing off it.
00:20:43 Jenny
It really puts me in the elite category
0:20:45 my competitiveness is just I know on fire.
00:20:48 Jenny
Well, that's also I need to go back to the cathedral anyway because there is a superstition about the cathedral tower. Oh.
00:20:51 Ben
OK.
00:20:57 Jenny
Where you are not meant to climb the cathedral tower before you graduate.
00:21:03 Jenny
That's me, it's meant.
00:21:04 Jenny
To be bad luck, but obviously I haven't graduated by the point that I moved out, so yeah, I've not. I've not done that yet.
00:21:11 Ben
Never climbed the tower.
00:21:12 Nicky
I I'm thinking like Quasimodo hunchback notch damn climbing up to tower, but I'm assuming what you actually mean is.
00:21:19 Nicky
Up the stairs.
00:21:22 Ben
You thought you meant climbing the outside of the.
00:21:24 Ben
Tower, yeah?
00:21:26 Nicky
Yeah, yeah we.
00:21:28 Jenny
Yeah, we're not scaling like a Norman cathedral.
00:21:32 Jenny
Like you know, like sticky pad vibes.
00:21:35 Ben
But the reason the reason I asked about what years?
00:21:38 Ben
Would you need because?
00:21:40 Ben
Jenny, I started this project in 2016 and then I remember shortly after and then Nicky said, then my sisters at Durham University and we had a we had about a three year window to go and visit the landmarks in and around Durham.
00:21:54 Ben
And yeah, you kindly hosted us in. You would just start at university. I think 'cause I think it was funny.
00:21:59 Ben
2017 that we went to visit.
00:22:01 Nicky
It was 2018.
00:22:03 Ben
It was 18 fine.
00:22:05 Nicky
Durham Cathedral is the only landmark in the book that's in Durham, yeah?
00:22:09
That's the only one.
00:22:10 Ben
Like it's it's a good one. I know Durham is probably.
00:22:13 Ben
Filled with other good historical curiosities and sites.
00:22:16 Nicky
What's the one the thing we went to again, the smallest bar or smallest pub?
00:22:22 Ben
It was and it was tiny.
00:22:24 Ben
And I think I think Alex and I enjoyed laughing because if Nikki and Jenny took, you know two smallish individuals went to the smallest urban England. It would be. It would be like.
00:22:33 Ben
A normal sized pub.
00:22:34 Speaker 3
Ah, I make sure it's like a cupboard with a bar or.
00:22:38 Nicky
Like a small bar.
00:22:40 Jenny
I don't know what you.
00:22:41 Jenny
Mean. Oh the sardines 1.
00:22:43 Nicky
Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah.
00:22:45 Nicky
But well, while.
00:22:46 Nicky
We were there that weekend 'cause Alex was doing like a writing retreat nearby or something so it kind of aligned nicely and so we also went to Newcastle and to Jarrow.
00:22:58 Ben
We did.
00:23:00 Nicky
We went to the the Newest landmark that's in the book.
00:23:04 Nicky
The Millennium Bridge in Newcastle.
00:23:06 Ben
Yes, that's true.
00:23:07 Ben
Opened in the year.
00:23:08 Nicky
2000 the year after Jenny was born, let's just.
00:23:12 Nicky
Put that out there.
00:23:16 Nicky
And then we went to Jarrow, which is kind of linked to why Durham Cathedral is in in the book as well.
00:23:21 Ben
Yeah, that's right, that was a.
00:23:22 Ben
Nice ruined monastery which.
00:23:25 Ben
Always favourites on my.
00:23:26 Nicky
Jenny, do you remember anything about the history of Durham Cathedral on why it might be in Ben's Book?
00:23:32 Jenny
I believe it's because it is because of St Cuthbert
00:23:39 Ben
That's the winner.
00:23:40 Jenny
Got collection of Saints like literally.
00:23:44 Jenny
We've got some cost, but and then I think we've got some. I think Bede is around.
00:23:48 Ben
I think he's think he's buried there too as well.
00:23:52 Jenny
Yeah, and partially this is based on who were all of the Durham colleges named after.
00:23:58 Ben
Oh, interesting.
00:23:58 Jenny
Well, it's always that is the Oh yeah, this isn't a college.
00:24:02 Jenny
And St Cuthbert’s society, actually.
00:24:04 Nicky
Oh, and.
00:24:05 Ben
What did this think after society?
00:24:07 Ben
Get up to.
00:24:09 Jenny
They just live in a nicer bit of Durham than what I did they.
00:24:12 Jenny
Get to live in like the nice traditional bit right by the right by the cathedral. Whereas I lived in a nice like, you know, 60s architecture.
00:24:21 Ben
Something something.
00:24:21 Jenny
And then you've also got the College of Saint Hilda and St Bede as well.
00:24:25 Nicky
It makes sense.
00:24:28 Nicky
St Cuthbert are all the people that are in that part of the university. Are they all loners?
00:24:37 Ben
Why would you assume that?
00:24:40 Nicky
Bear with me.
00:24:42 Nicky
Because St. Cuthbert, who was originally from Throwback to an old podcast, Iona.
00:24:49 Ben
Oh my gosh.
00:24:50 Nicky
He was from Iona and was one of the monks that was told to go from Iona, which we now know from a previous podcast was their Christianity.
00:24:58 Nicky
First came to the Celts, the Scots, so uhm, St cast, but then went to go and live on M.
00:25:04 Ben
Lindisfarne, also a landmark in my book.
00:25:07 Nicky
And then lived basically in solitude as like a hermit on the island, away from all the other monks for like years and years.
00:25:16 Nicky
Yes, and that's why I say those that are at some cost. But society or whatever it is you called it a loners. That's the long story.
00:25:18 Speaker 3
Right?
00:25:28 Jenny
I think they made may be offended by that.
00:25:32 Ben
Yeah, you want them to be living in like individual cells of rooms. Don't don't you meditating and praying eight times a day.
00:25:39 Ben
And yeah, battles of celibacy 2.
00:25:42 Nicky
I believe that he the reason why he was a St is because he basically was like.
00:25:47 Nicky
So holy because he just kind of sat by himself and prayed like all day and eventually became the Bishop of Lindisfarne.
00:25:54 Jenny
Sounds about right.
00:25:58 Ben
Hold on Jenny.
00:25:58 Ben
I'm sure we would have discussed this.
00:26:00 Ben
On the day, and.
00:26:01 Ben
That's like as as a as.
00:26:03 Ben
A durham student.
00:26:04 Ben
You know this wasn't part of your entry exam surely was the the history of the cathedral and good old. St Cuthbert, right?
00:26:11 Ben
Here was a.
00:26:11 Ben
Bit of a a legend in the northeast when it comes to Saints he is apparently.
00:26:15 Nicky
Like the main man, yeah. And and he was living at around six hundreds.
00:26:22 Ben
So we're.
00:26:23 Nicky
Talking quite a long time.
00:26:24 Nicky
Ago, but jenjen. Do you have any idea why St Cuthbert is now in Durham but his body his remains?
00:26:32 Jenny
I have no idea
00:26:35 Ben
We appreciate the honesty.
00:26:38 Nicky
Basically the the Vikings kept raiding Lindisfarne.
00:26:44 Nicky
We're talking decades, decades, and decades of just raiding islands and just causing like total menace basically to every all the monks, yeah and so eventually they would fight so fed up that they ended up leaving the islands and coming to the mainland and then eventually sort of they. They found a few places around the north where they settled.
00:26:52 Ben
Damn Vikings.
00:27:04 Nicky
And then moved again and then eventually settled in this place, but then became Durham.
00:27:10 Nicky
And they built this city.
00:27:12 Nicky
Let shrined sync off. He'd already died by this point. I should point.
00:27:15 Nicky
Out and his.
00:27:16 Nicky
His remain to like special and and the actual phrase they used was incorrupted.
00:27:24 Ben
His body wasn't corrupted.
00:27:25 Nicky
His body is incorrupted. Any guesses to what that means?
00:27:30 Ben
Well, there was, monks were celibate, weren't they? So?
00:27:34 Ben
But your reference to that.
00:27:35 Nicky
Is it is not, but I like your thinking.
00:27:38 Nicky
It basically means that 11 years after he died, they looked back in his coffin again and he hadn't decomposed.
00:27:47 Ben
It's a miracle there.
00:27:48 Jenny
Surely opening up that coffin would be a way to ensure that would happen? Yeah, probably.
00:27:53 Ben
It's a very good point.
00:27:55 Nicky
Just like let's have a.
00:27:55 Nicky
Look, see what's going on.
00:27:57 Ben
Yeah, people still there.
00:27:58 Ben
He did beat up there, he.
00:28:00
Is so you.
00:28:00 Nicky
Know when you get like those those bodies, that kind of go right, waxy rather than they do decompose.
00:28:05 Nicky
Apparently it was a miracle. Yeah, it's solidified him as a St. Basically, at the time we're talking like 900 by the time like Durham really.
00:28:13 Nicky
Kind of kicks off.
00:28:14 Nicky
They used some remains as a pilgrimage spot for Christians around the country to come to visit, particularly north.
00:28:24 Nicky
I also find it's quite fascinating that what they would do sometimes is take like the remains of Saints.
00:28:30 Nicky
On road shows around the country.
00:28:34 Nicky
To raise money for.
00:28:35 Ben
Front or.
00:28:35 Nicky
Yeah my son to raise money for their their cathedral building, which anyone that's read pillars of the earth.
00:28:42 Ben
Yeah I was.
00:28:43 Ben
Just gonna say definitely about playing pillars of.
00:28:45 Ben
The Earth, which is our.
00:28:45 Ben
Reference point for all things monastic.
00:28:48 Nicky
Yeah, to raise money for your church cathedral building, you take your monks on tour and then people pay to like see the Saints body and stuff.
00:28:57 Nicky
So that is basically what funded a large part of Durham Cathedral
00:29:00 Jenny
Which is actually still free to enter. I think it's by like recommended donation, I think.
00:29:06 Ben
The medieval monks be furious. It could think if it was such a money maker and now they list letting people in for.
00:29:11 Ben
Free
00:29:12 Jenny
Yeah, they were. They were going on massive long tours and now it's just.
00:29:16 Jenny
Like any old.
00:29:17 Jenny
Riff Raff in yeah exactly mean. Ben. Like what?
00:29:21
We did up there.
00:29:22 Speaker 3
Yeah, I'm.
00:29:23 Ben
The site that they you know buried guff, but that's that's the site that Durham grew out of, right? That's where today's cathedral is, and the town grew up around that cathedral.
00:29:35 Ben
Jenny, you have. You have to. Thanks for you know your university education is the mediaeval monks of Lindisfarne. Otherwise there will be no university for you to know town for you to be living in.
00:29:46 Jenny
I might have had to go to Exeter.
00:29:49 Nicky
Imagine how disgusting that would be.
00:29:52 Ben
That I learned that.
00:29:56 Ben
The cathedral we see today was built only in a period of 40 years, which for cathedrals is pretty damn rapid and.
00:30:06 Ben
The Normans built it in.
00:30:08 Ben
You got the 1100s around that period and it pretty much still exists today as.
00:30:12 Ben
It did then, which is remarkable.
00:30:14 Ben
And my first memory of Durham Cathedral, which it's going to be for a lot of people. Maybe you 2 Jenny on that snowy first day, because when you step off the train back.
00:30:23 Ben
Form at Durham.
00:30:25 Ben
Boom, the cathedral is just it just dominates your view. Your eye is immediately drawn to it and it's almost raised up on a hill.
00:30:31 Ben
That's what it feels like anyway, yeah, and it's it's stunning. The way it overlooks the town and it must look even lighter with snow.
00:30:38 Jenny
And snow it is gorgeous. Going back to all of the Harry Potter references.
00:30:43 Jenny
The way people describe it, it is that like when you come off on the train and you see the cathedral out the window, it's like the going back to Hogwarts and saying the castle again, kind of.
00:30:55 Ben
I see that.
00:30:56 Jenny
Yeah, I was like oh, I know I know that I'm home now, uh, because I can see the cathedral again.
00:31:01 Ben
You know, I guess the monks at the time and the bishops would have wanted the cathedral to take her breath away a little bit, and it still has that effect.
00:31:08 Ben
It, especially the.
00:31:09 Ben
Way it rises over the rest of the room. I I did also read that the university itself was founded by one of the bishops of Durham.
00:31:18 Ben
In 1832
00:31:21 Jenny
Who I believe is my favourite Archbishop
00:31:23 Nicky
Favourite Archbishop.?
00:31:26 Ben
We all have our Favourite Bishop
00:31:29 Jenny
If I'm correct, is Archbishop William van Mildert?
00:31:32 Ben
That's correct, so it's let me guess is there.
00:31:35 Ben
A college named after him.
00:31:37 Jenny
That is, can you guess which college I went to? Yes, the college that has a lake that is sometimes described as a swamp.
00:31:41 Ben
With yours.
00:31:46 Ben
Oh, lovely lovely yeah.
00:31:48 Jenny
Well, apparently used to get thrown into on their birthdays.
00:31:51 Ben
Did did this not happen to you?
00:31:52 Speaker 3
OK.
00:31:53 Jenny
No 'cause legend has it. But if you get thrown in you.
00:31:56 Jenny
Need to have a tetanus jab.
00:32:01 Ben
You know the students have really ruined Durham
00:32:04 Ben
If that's the case.
00:32:07 Speaker 3
I agree.
00:32:09 Ben
You guys heard about the Saint, the miracles of St Cuthbert.
00:32:13 Nicky
I have not.
00:32:13 Ben
Well, he has survived. Apparently his bones are still buried in Durham Cathedral.
00:32:19 Nicky
Yeah Right?
00:32:19 Speaker 3
But that it.
00:32:20 Ben
If that is true, it means it survived.
00:32:24 Ben
Henry the eighth reformation where Monastries absolutely all over the country was torn down and their Saints, relics and bones were destroyed.
00:32:33 Ben
But somehow Cuthbert and his tomb survived that, which is impressive. But ever heard of Jenny ever heard of Cuthbert's mist?
00:32:41 Nicky
That sounds gross.
00:32:44 Jenny
I feel like I'm it might trigger a vague memory.
00:32:47 Ben
It's not, yeah, yeah. It does sound gross, but apparently Durham was the target of Nazi bombing.
00:32:54 Ben
As one of those, you know how they would try to bomb sites of cultural value, not no strategic benefit, just to demoralise the nation.
00:33:04 Ben
But the night they were meant to bomb the.
00:33:06 Ben
Durham and the.
00:33:07 Ben
Cathedral, a mist descended at sorry, ascended above Durham so the Luftwaffe pilots couldn't see what they were doing is they had to.
00:33:15 Ben
And not drop their bombs on Durham. And that saved the cathedral from Nazi bombing and it was called.
00:33:20 Ben
Plus yeah, Cuthbert's mist.
00:33:22 Ben
They named it because they thought it was good old. St. Cuthbert still.
00:33:24 Jenny
Setting up a language.
00:33:26 Ben
Still looking after the people of.
00:33:27 Ben
Durham 1000 years later.
00:33:34 Jenny
Looking at or just entirely selfish motivation and saying I've managed to stay in this cathedral for this long. You're not getting.
00:33:42 Ben
Yeah, yeah yourself. Reservation from government.
00:33:42 Jenny
Rid of me.
00:33:47 Nicky
I know that lots of people used to fake relics and like make make them up. In actual fact, there's a Blackadder season one.
00:33:56 Nicky
Yeah, I know no one seen it and season one episode where they just like make a load of relics and just sell them. So I find it very hard to believe that any or many.
00:34:06 Nicky
Of them are real.
00:34:08 Nicky
But I mean, the mist is pretty compelling.
00:34:11 Ben
You got it going, mist.
00:34:12 Nicky
Strong stuff.
00:34:13 Ben
Since 2017, we must have missed it, but apparently you can go down Cathedral and actually see fragments of Cuthbert.
00:34:21 Ben
's original 8th century prophet wooden coffin, that's cool. It's called the same colour but still has that sway over their own cathedral. They love him.
00:34:30 Nicky
I don't remember seeing that.
00:34:31 Ben
No me neither.
00:34:33
This is.
00:34:33 Ben
Going to sound awful that.
00:34:34 Ben
I, and Nicky has as well, but we've been to so many cathedrals and when you're there in the moment, they're majestic and beautiful and actually breathtaking. But they do start to blend into each other really. Unfortunately, all these amazing cathedrals.
00:34:50 Jenny
I will stand strong for Durham Cathedral being.
00:34:53 Jenny
Up there among.
00:34:54 Jenny
The best.
00:34:55 Ben
You'll defend it.
00:34:56 Jenny
But that is the proverbial hill I'm willing to die on the literal hill that the cathedral is on.
00:35:01 Ben
It's literally OK, Jenny. We ask every guest on the podcast to rate the historical landmark they've brought to our attention. Jenny, we're gonna ask you to rate out of 10 Durham Cathedral.
00:35:13 Ben
Firstly, its historical significance.
00:35:16 Jenny
I feel like historical significance would have to go at least for.
00:35:19 Jenny
Like a strong seven.
00:35:21 Speaker 3
OK.
00:35:21 Jenny
'cause if you're talking like.
00:35:23 Jenny
Foundings of Christianity, that relatively fundamental and then also from a selfish point of view, when that leads into the founding of one of the best universities in the country.
00:35:35 Jenny
That has to put it out.
00:35:36 Jenny
There, so I'm gonna yeah I'm gonna give.
00:35:37 Nicky
It a 7 and she said I was contested.
00:35:42 Ben
OK nice nice.
00:35:44 Ben
The second rating. We'd like you to give it Jenny is out.
00:35:47 Ben
Of town for its fun factor of.
00:35:50 Ben
Spending a day visiting.
00:35:52 Ben
The beauty that is Dark Cathedral.
00:35:54 Jenny
I'm toying between A6 and A7 because I feel like other than the sort of.
00:36:00 Jenny
My beloved cultural facts about Durham Cathedral.
00:36:04 Jenny
At the end of the day, I acknowledge that it is another cathedral.
00:36:09 Ben
Ha ha.
00:36:10 Jenny
So arguably, to balance out my very high thoughts for the next category. Uhm, I'm gonna. I'm gonna go with the six I think for fun factor.
00:36:20 Ben
Nice, I mean I'm a big fan of listing cathedrals full stop so I would knock it up a few points.
00:36:26 Ben
More than the average person.
00:36:28 Ben
And you can't pretend to be professor.
00:36:30 Ben
Snape, which helps so six is good.
00:36:31 Jenny
Yeah, that's quite fun. Yeah, I like how afterwards we went to a really cool gin bar.
00:36:37 Ben
Yes, I remember that that was great.
00:36:41 Ben
It was one of those places which.
00:36:42 Ben
Had which had.
00:36:43 Ben
Hundreds of gins to choose from, right?
00:36:45 Ben
Which is fun.
00:36:47 Jenny
Like even Nikki was overwhelmed, I was.
00:36:49
Like whoa.
00:36:51 Nicky
So many mixers.
00:36:54 Ben
And Jenny out of 10 inster worthiness. This is how photogenic Durham federal is Theo Instagram post.
00:37:03 Nicky
I'm going to give it a 9 'cause I don't know.
00:37:05 Ben
No, it's fine, it's fine.
00:37:06 Jenny
I I don't. I don't know if anything.
00:37:09 Jenny
Can be considered a perfect for that, but if you're looking at somewhere where you can get.
00:37:15 Jenny
Harry Potter style pictures. You can have Marvel themed pictures and just pictures of genuine historical beauty. Durham has a range for every or Durham Cathedral has arranged for everyone and so I don't really know if you can get much better than that. Then kind of that combination.
00:37:33 Nicky
Seems fair.
00:37:33 Ben
Damn it you've sold me. You sold me completely on that night.
00:37:35 Nicky
You can be basic, but you can also be historical
00:37:42 Jenny
and religious and religious.
00:37:43 Ben
The Holy Trinity
00:37:50 Ben
OK, this is our favourite part of podcast and for the first time ever I know something which Nicky doesn't. Going into this segment because we always ask our guests to bring to the podcast a historical landmark.
00:38:03 Ben
Off their Rd, which doesn't already feature in my.
00:38:05 Ben
Book and normally they tell Nikki in advance, but this time I've got the dirt Jenny over to you. Can you introduce us to your guest alternative landmark please?
00:38:17 Jenny
Now to Nikki. I don't actually think in the end this would be overly surprising at all, OK?
00:38:24 Jenny
Because we we have established what my primary interests are so.
00:38:30 Nicky
That I thought I would go down so when you said before about oh are you gonna pick the globe and all this?
00:38:36 Jenny
The thing I have not picked the globe oh I have picked the Theatre Royal Drury Lane.
00:38:40Nicky
I knew you were gonna pick Drury Lane.
00:38:46 Ben
We should have asked you.
00:38:47 Nicky
Oh, I would have guessed it was something to do with Drury Lane. I wouldn't have guessed which bit in.
00:38:52 Jenny
Particular, but there are a lot.
00:38:53 Speaker 3
OK.
00:38:53 Jenny
There are a lot of fun facts that you're not going to expect about this
00:38:57 Nicky
I know Nothing nothing.
00:38:59 Ben
Jenny, we've obviously established your massive theatre geek, which we love. Make make the case for the Theatre Royal Injury Lake, which is in London. If you. If our listeners didn't know.
00:39:08 Jenny
Yeah, just by just by Covent Garden. First off, the theatre itself makes the claim that it is actually the oldest theatre site in continuous use.
00:39:18 Nicky
In the world?
00:39:19 Jenny
Oh, that's what they say.
00:39:20 Jenny
Oh wow OK well so yeah it has that to its name. The current theatre is actually the 4th version of the Theatre Royal.
00:39:31 Jenny
Partially occurs at one point it burnt down. Yep, has happened to a lot of theatres. Actually it's a massive problem when they introduced gas lighting in theatres. It just meant loaded them caught fire.
00:39:41 Ben
Oh sugar, yes, that would happen.
00:39:44 Jenny
So slightly slightly sinister. It was also the 1st place where the initial version of the national anthem was played.
00:39:52 Ben
Quite a claim to fame.
00:39:54 Jenny
Also, a sight of a royal assassination attempt.
00:39:58 Ben
Whoa, who did they try and kill?
00:40:00 Jenny
At George the third.
00:40:02 Nicky
Oh, that crazy bastard
00:40:05 Jenny
So yeah, so attempted to attempted to murder George III. There also another king connection. The reason it is the Theatre Royal is it is one of only two theatres that Charles II, when the monarchy was restored gave royal seal of approval to because there is a tunnel.
00:40:25 Jenny
In the theatre, which he allegedly used to meet up with his mistress, Nell Gwyn, who was a who was.
00:40:33 Jenny
So we have many, many layers of historical relevance.
00:40:35 Nicky
You're making the case.
00:40:38 Ben
I've got I've got 1663 as the.
00:40:41 Ben
Year was established.
00:40:42 Nicky
Is that the most recent one?
00:40:49 Jenny
No, the most recent one is 1812 I believe. Oh so they had a a fair few in quick accession.
00:40:53 Ben
But I think I'm right in saying Jenny, that, uh, yeah, Charles's second came onto the throne after Oliver Cromwell, Co were in charge, and did they not ban theatres. So it was quite a big deal that.
00:41:05 Ben
When theatres were brought back.
00:41:05 Jenny
A miserable and miserable time is also when you consider that they banned theatres, got it back, and then the plague happened.
00:41:14 Jenny
So we weren't having a great era for theatre at that point.
00:41:18 Nicky
A bit like now.
00:41:20 Jenny
Yeah topical, yeah.
00:41:22 Ben
And Jenny, why aren't you doing a bit of research about theatres and plagues and pandemics right now?
00:41:28 Jenny
Yes, so attempting to attempting to write an essay about how suited theatre is to kind of dealing with questions of loss, like, particularly in a in a time of pandemic. Kind of looking how theatres adapts and.
00:41:44 Jenny
Kind of responds to like historical.
00:41:47 Ben
Oh please, please go back and find out how Theatre Royal responded to the Great Plague that would be great, yeah?
00:41:52 Jenny
I need to look into this now.
00:41:54 Nicky
Yeah, because if you could find out what they did then maybe you could fix all the theatre problems of the current day.
00:42:01 Jenny
That would make me quite a wealthy person.
00:42:04 Nicky
Yeah, well, you know.
00:42:06 Jenny
Do you happen to know what is on at the?
00:42:07 Jenny
Theatre currently I.
00:42:09 Nicky
Knew that this question was gonna come up.
00:42:13 Nicky
I don't know, but I'm gonna say.
00:42:14 Nicky
It's probably your favourite.
00:42:16 Nicky
Les mis
00:42:18 Jenny
It is not. Oh think, think more adapted animated film which I have watched with you.
00:42:27 Nicky
I know it's.
00:42:27 Nicky
Not The Lion King, 'cause that's a different one, yeah?
00:42:31 Nicky
I don't know. We've seen so many things.
00:42:35 Jenny
I haven't seen the musical with you, but the film I have seen with you so it they had that they had a nice seasonal display in Covent Garden recently.
00:42:45 Nicky
Oh frozen.
00:42:46 Ben
The frozen.
00:42:47 Nicky
Oh, it's frozen.
00:42:48
It's great.
00:42:48 Nicky
Uh oh, got yeah yeah yeah yeah who's the ice queen me or you?
00:42:55 Jenny
I feel like you.
00:43:01 Jenny
She has an agenda.
00:43:03 Nicky
Fair enough, OK? I'll take it.
00:43: 05 Jenny
I'm the annoying younger sister. If like Nikki come and play with me entertain me.
00:43:09 Nicky
It's like no Jenny. I have a job just like no Jenny. I don't want to build a goddamm snowman.
00:43:17 Ben
So Jenny, so oldest.
00:43:19 Ben
Theatre in continuous use.
00:43:22 Ben
So obviously there were all the theatres.
00:43:25 Ben
In the world.
00:43:26 Ben
But this one, because it's been a theatre since the time of King Charles the 2nd.
00:43:31 Ben
It holds that's a pretty special record.
00:43:33 Jenny
Exactly exactly, and I think that's one of the things that has over the other London theatres as well.
00:43:39 Nicky
Is it older than the globe?
00:43:42 Jenny
This is what they have claimed.
00:43:45 Nicky
Oh, but the the the globe that's there now is not the.
00:43:47 Nicky
Load did move and it did move location as well. Oh, this is tenuous.
00:43:52 Ben
It's it's a good. It's a good loop loophole.
00:43:55 Ben
But also the the second globe probably opens much.
00:43:59 Ben
More recently, right?
00:44:01 Ben
I obviously was around in Elizabethan times in its current form, it would have been.
00:44:04 Ben
I don't know.
00:44:05 Ben
How old it's been there, but Theatre Royal and we're going.
00:44:07 Ben
To give Theatre Royal the benefit of the doubt here.
00:44:08 Nicky
Yeah, OK, we'll give it.
00:44:10 Nicky
Give it.
00:44:11 Jenny
There is another point of it though. Nick though I think you would appreciate what's that in that it is also claimed to be one of the most haunted theatres.
00:44:19 Nicky
Now we're talking.
00:44:22 Jenny
So yeah, there are. There are few ghosties here. Apparently, apparently resident there. The main one apparently being the man in Grey and who's meant to be the ghost of a man. They found there with a.
00:44:33 Jenny
Knife through his heart lovely.
00:44:35 Ben
Oh my gosh.
00:44:36 Jenny
So yeah, he's apparently meant to be the main ghost there. The main ghost supposed to be a sign of good luck to the actors if they see one of the ghosts.
00:44:46 Jenny
Which I think is quite it's.
00:44:47 Jenny
Quite sweet.
00:44:48 Nicky
Yeah, I guess I guess that's nice. It's better than being spooked. Have they ever put on a performance of Phantom of the opera or woman in black?
00:44:55 Jenny
I do not believe they have, which I feel like would be a missed opportunity. It is a missed opportunity, although maybe it'll be too. Maybe there'll be too much ghostly stuff going on and it would.
00:45:03 Nicky
Just be.
00:45:04 Jenny
Yeah, the ghosts might start like fighting each other. Yeah, this like ghostly rifle.
00:45:08 Nicky
Great, So what shows? Has it been put on it?
00:45:10Jenny
Had My Fair Lady, which was obviously a huge success at the time they had Oliver there a while ago as well, and Charlie and the Chocolate Factory was there so we're going from some of the like recently. It's been the site of some of the more kind of like kid friendly type musicals.
00:45:28 Jenny
And I won't say they also had Shrek, I think.
00:45:31 Ben
Nice Jenny. Have you have you been to?
00:45:34 Ben
A performance at the Theatre Royal.
00:45:36 Jenny
I have
00:45:37 Ben
Well, do you see Shrek?
00:45:38 Jenny
If only. I saw Oliver in about 2009, I think somewhere around there which evidently inspired me from a from a young age to pursue that as my my dissertation topic.
00:45:45 Ben
Nice nice.
00:45:54 Jenny
Nick, I also have another fun fun question for you, so it was actually in the last couple of years before having frozen.
00:46:02 Jenny
Yeah, yeah, so it was renovated completely.
00:46:07 Jenny
How much do you think that renovation would cost?
00:46:11 Nicky
I don't know. I know these things are quite expensive.
00:46:16 Nicky
£8 million.
00:46:18 Jenny
£60 million.
00:46:19 Ben
60 MO the owner, the owner of the theatre.
00:46:24 Ben
Who would it?
00:46:24 Ben
Might have shelled out that renovation is my favourite musical composer of all time. Because it's Andrew Lloyd Webber absolutely love him and he owns the Theatre Royal today.
00:46:35 Jenny
I I I do enjoy, they enjoy some Lloyd Webber.
00:46:38 Nicky
I feel like this is a good moment to to mention that obviously the theatres have been in quite badly over the last two years.
00:46:46 Nicky
Yes, very true.
00:46:47 Nicky
And actually, at the moment of recording this, a lot of them have been shutting, haven't they?
00:46:53 Nicky
And because the other cast members have all come down with COVID and it's looking not that great, to be honest.
00:46:59 Jenny
An interesting moment for theatre, which is what I would also say as theatres are also some of the places.
00:47:07 Jenny
Where they have their continuing historical relevance, because you can look at whatever the theatre had had on at a certain point and that will tell you something about that.
00:47:16 Jenny
And in time.
00:47:17 Jenny
Hmm, so whereas for other words for other landmarks you'll have it as the you know that is their moment.
00:47:23 Jenny
That's their relevance. You can look back through all of the history of all of the shows have played.
00:47:28 Jenny
At the theatre.
00:47:29 Jenny
Royal and then you can kind of work out roughly how things were at that time, so I know people who've done like dissertations about.
00:47:38 Jenny
Plays that have been on at the Theatre Royal and that they said were kind of all focused towards like you know, marriage and like feminist kind of concerns and ideas like in the Renaissance period.
00:47:50 Jenny
And so yeah, you can kind of theatre is quite good for like charting a moment in history. And so. Yeah, I'd say it has. It's kind of continued relevance for that.
00:48:00 Jenny
An age of new types of theatre.
00:48:02 Ben
Oh, I enjoyed having the excuse to look research around the subject here, which I don't normally get to.
00:48:09 Ben
Do but I don't know if you know this, Jenny.
00:48:12 Ben
Because Drury Lane.
00:48:14 Ben
I reckon there are two other potential reasons it could be a landmark in itself, obviously.
00:48:18 Ben
The Muffin man lived there.
00:48:20
Which might be why Shrek?
00:48:22 Nicky
Shrek was on there!
00:48:23 Ben
It was great 'cause my hosted there.
00:48:25
Oh, I just really like that.
00:48:26 Nicky
He's perfect so.
00:48:27 Speaker 3
Perfect.
00:48:28 Ben
Potentially slightly more historical Drury Lane in 1869 was the home of the first ever Sainsbury's, really.
00:48:36 Ben
How about that? How about that?
00:48:37 Nicky
Same thing, uh?
00:48:39 Ben
Yeah, and you know, in my book already the first ever boots, the first ever M&S but not the first Sainsbury's which was on Drury Lane.
00:48:48 Ben
What a historical St?
00:48:50 Nicky
So you could go, that's how you could go and buy all your snacks for the theatre before going in.
00:48:55 Jenny
Everyone glare at you during the performance.
00:48:58 Nicky
You just got.
00:48:59 Nicky
Big glass jar of like and boiled sweets.
00:49:05 Ben
Jenny, the only other fact I've got, which I think you sent me, to be honest, I don't take credit for it, but it's about.
00:49:11 Ben
How theatres normally have one royal?
00:49:13 Ben
Box, but this theatre it's.
00:49:15 Ben
So royal that has two little boxes.
00:49:17 Nicky
Whoa, excellent.
00:49:19 Ben
Do you know? Do you know why?
00:49:22 Nicky
I do not know.
00:49:23 Ben
Oh great, I got to swoop in with this fact then yeah, apparently is unique to this theatre. Dates back to the time of King George the third who was almost assassinated there like you told us and because he was on bad terms with his son, future George the 4th. So avoid confrontation. The theatre set up two oil boxes for father and son.
00:49:43 Ben
So they could watch the plays separately, which is a unique feature.
00:49:46 Ben
To this business.
00:49:46 Nicky
Couldn't they just go on a different night?
00:49:49 Ben
Good question.
00:49:51 Jenny
That's like optimal bad family relations.
00:49:54 Nicky
Yeah, so when Jenny and I go to the theatre then we can.
00:49:59 Ben
Well, we've only got one more question for you, Jenny, unless you've got anything else for us. But of course one of the best features about Benjamin Britten is whenever we go to a landmark, we take a photo.
00:50:09 Ben
We whack that on Instagram, so our question to you is we're going to the Theatre Royal and we're posting it as a historical landmark. What is the photo that we're taking?
00:50:19 Ben
At this site.
00:50:21 Jenny
I feel like potentially particularly bearing in mind this is Nikki and I, and if we're going to at the moment.
00:50:27 Jenny
I mean, you've got frozen going on.
00:50:30 Jenny
Yes, yeah, like we'd have to stage it is Mickey and I each as one of the sisters outside.
00:50:33 Ben
Oh absolutely.
00:50:37 Jenny
Like this is going, we would also have to have someone like as a reindeer right as well. So yeah, just recreate all the characters I want, like themed outfits and everything.
00:50:49 Ben
Love it.
00:50:50 Nicky
And who's who's Ben going to be?
00:50:52 Nicky
Olaf?
00:50:54 Ben
The snowman the snowman.
00:50:55 Nicky
Yeah, yeah, I like that.
00:50:56 Ben
Yeah, let's no matter everyone loves Jenny. Does this apply to whatever shows on when you visit it? So if Oliver was the performance, you'd come as the Artful Dodger.
00:50:57 Speaker 3
OK.
00:51:06 Jenny
Yeah yeah, after my theme have someone like begging for more food.
00:51:11 Ben
Jenny, you've made you've.
00:51:11 Ben
Made a good case for this and it feels like we need a couple more theatres. Historical theatres in our in our list so.
00:51:20 Nicky
If you were going to go to any more landmarks with Ben.
00:51:23 Nicky
What which one would it?
00:51:24 Ben
Be, yeah, it's about time we get into another one, penny.
00:51:26 Nicky
Do you have any in mind?
00:51:28 Jenny
I mean, I enjoyed Hever castle before, so I feel like another good like Tudor palace kind of situation would be quite nice like a Hatfield house or something always up for.
00:51:37 Speaker 3
OK, OK.
00:51:40 Jenny
Something like that.
00:51:41 Ben
It's possible I would. I would personally appreciate it if you studied somewhere like Saint Andrews next. That'll be really useful and then we can.
00:51:49 Ben
Do all that landmarks around there.
00:51:51 Jenny
Yeah, I just need to theme all of them around around the university or course I'm studying, yeah.
00:51:57 Ben
Yes please yes.
00:51:59 Ben
Jenny, ever since we Nikki and I started this podcast, we've wanted you on. I think Nikki's been particularly excited and it's.
00:52:05 Ben
Been great, thank you.
00:52:06 Ben
For joining us this evening and.
00:52:08 Nicky
Thanks Jenny.
00:52:08 Jenny
Thank you for having me and letting me make the case.
00:52:11 Jenny
For her for theatre.
00:52:13 Ben
And well made, and we'll see you at another landmark sometime soon.
00:52:17 Jenny
Thank you.