Unbelievably this episode of Benjamin's Britain features it's first ever castle! While Ben has visited many, our guest on this episode Fariya Mohiuddin is the first to discuss a castle visit with him on the pod, and in this case it's Kenilworth Castle, Warkwickshire that is in the limelight. Famous for Britain's longest siege, Fariya and Ben discovered it's Tudor history had more *ahem* allure.
Stay tuned in for the final part of the episode which fast-forwards a few hundred years to the arrival of HMT Empire Windrush.
You can now buy us a coffee if you enjoy our episodes - https://www.buymeacoffee.com/benjaminsbritain
We'd love you to subscribe and rate us on when you listen to your favourite podcasts. Follow us at @benjaminsbritainpod on Instagram for social content and updates.
Unbelievably this episode of Benjamin's Britain features it's first ever castle! While Ben has visited many, our guest on this episode Fariya Mohiuddin is the first to discuss a castle visit with him on the pod, and in this case it's Kenilworth Castle, Warkwickshire that is in the limelight. Famous for Britain's longest siege, Fariya and Ben discovered it's Tudor history had more *ahem* allure.
Stay tuned in for the final part of the episode which fast-forwards a few hundred years to the arrival of HMT Empire Windrush.
You can now buy us a coffee if you enjoy our episodes - https://www.buymeacoffee.com/benjaminsbritain
We'd love you to subscribe and rate us on when you listen to your favourite podcasts. Follow us at @benjaminsbritainpod on Instagram for social content and updates.
Kenilworth Castle and the Port of Tilbury
00:00:01 Ben
Welcome back to the Benjamin's Britain Podcast for anyone new here. This is the podcast in which we explore British history through its landmarks, specifically the 500 and Clive Aslett's book Landmarks of Britain, which I am visiting one by one. And our guests each episode are those who have joined me up and down the country.
00:00:21 Ben
But with me, as she has been for 89 landmarks and 27 episodes of this podcast, it's everyone's favourite co-host Nicky Pavitt.
00:00:30 Nicky
I love that everyone's favourite Co host cohost.
00:00:34 Ben
And my cohost, we're both cohosts.
00:00:36 Nicky
Yes, so but.
00:00:37 Nicky
Everyone's favourite is me?
00:00:38 Ben
We all know people prefer you.
00:00:41 Nicky
I like it that way.
00:00:44 Ben
Right. Some landmark news making since we published our last episode. I have hit the 400 landmark milestone.
00:00:55 Nicky
Have you made it past 400 or just made?
00:00:57 Nicky
It 400.
00:00:57 Ben
No, I'm. I'm currently sitting at exactly 400.
00:01:00 Fariya
Wow, that's special.
00:01:01 Ben
Yeah, 80% done in means listeners. There were only 100 left. So if you have any requests for a landmark you want to visit in this final 20%, get them.
00:01:09 Ben
Booked in now.
00:01:10 Ben
Because they are.
00:01:10 Ben
Going booked up.
00:01:11 Ben
Well, I a little birdie told me that you and your boyfriend, Henry, have we very recently learned how to sail so.
00:01:21 Ben
As we have discussed, I'm pretty sure there are some coastal slash island landmarks in our future which you can sail us.
00:01:29 Nicky
Well, I I would say at the moment we're.
00:01:31 Nicky
Not qualified yet.
00:01:32
Oh damn.
00:01:33 Nicky
But we're in the process.
00:01:35 Ben
There are very few landmark things I haven't done yet, but being sailed in a boat to a landmark by a friend is definitely something that hasn't happened yet, so there's room for this.
00:01:45 Nicky
And it's the time of year where we discussed.
00:01:49 Nicky
What landmark you doing for your birthday, Ben?
00:01:51 Ben
Big Birthday Landmark coming up for the second year in a row, heading to a racecourse.
00:01:56 Ben
This time Newmarket races and you know this year I'm hoping to win it but.
00:02:00 Ben
Money, Nicky. Yeah. Money that I can invest straight into the next landmark trip because these things cost dollar.
00:02:06 Nicky
Oh yeah. So you imagine how much?
00:02:08 Nicky
Money you gonna have for you.
00:02:10 Ben
You know, I don't want to know, Nicki and everyone has a hobby, but you know the the the final few are expensive.
00:02:17 Ben
But hold on, dear listeners. And the day of recording, it's Nicki's birthday tomorrow. So Nikki, happy birthday.
00:02:23 Ben
For tomorrow.
00:02:24 Nicky
Yeah, yeah, this will come out on Monday, so it will be. I've been a couple of days ago.
00:02:29 Ben
I hope you had a nice birthday. Our birthdays are just 20 days apart. I would encourage you strongly encourage you to take a day off work and do.
00:02:36 Ben
A landmark tomorrow.
00:02:36 Ben
Nikki, treat yourself and final bit.
00:02:38 Ben
Of podcast news and our last.
00:02:40 Ben
Episode was the one about Blackpool Pleasure Beach with Paul Middleton and.
00:02:45 Ben
We got a.
00:02:45
Lot of love for.
00:02:46 Ben
It you know people I think nice to have us back in their podcast.
00:02:50 Ben
Leads. And let's face it, people loved.
00:02:53 Nicky
Yeah, we did.
00:02:53 Ben
Even come forward for him to come back as a as a for a guest.
00:02:56 Ben
Segment in the future.
00:02:57 Nicky
Yeah, exactly. It was just a really fun episode. Talking about, I mean, what's not to like about roller coasters and drag?
00:03:03 Nicky
Queens it was.
00:03:04 Nicky
Just great. Great.
00:03:07 Ben
It's good, and if you haven't listened, it's the one before this one in your podcast feeds.
00:03:11 Nicky
Yeah. And we know that people will love weird.
00:03:15 Nicky
Key or in some cases, raunchy history. So you're gonna love today's episode.
00:03:21 Ben
Yes, great segue.
00:03:23 Nicky
Well, I got off the press actually from my sister, she said.
00:03:27 Nicky
I got an.
00:03:28 Nicky
Answer in Granny's crossword right today.
00:03:31 Nicky
Because of the landmarks podcast.
00:03:32 Nicky
And genuinely, she's just sent this to me.
00:03:36 Nicky
And she was.
00:03:36 Nicky
Like thanks to Ben's friend Gemma, shout out to Gemma who answer.
00:03:40 Ben
Was the kill piece amazing?
00:03:47 Ben
Ah, we are.
00:03:48 Ben
Just informing young minds and Jemma is gonna be.
00:03:50 Ben
So happy about that.
00:03:52 Nicky
From one podcast guest to another, I'll say thank.
00:03:54 Nicky
You for that, Gemma.
00:03:56 Ben
So today we've got another international landmark fan joining us in the pod. My friend Faria, who is from Canada was calling us from Germany.
00:04:07 Ben
And is just the lover of all things landmarks and British history related.
00:04:11 Ben
And this was this was a really another really fun conversation. Must be said that when we recorded this Frea was in the middle of prepping for a seminar she was about to fly out to Senegal.
00:04:23 Ben
In West Africa for.
00:04:24 Ben
To present, so we really appreciated her time. Let's now go back 450 years into the past.
00:04:31 Ben
To discuss a.
00:04:32 Ben
Couple of horny Tudors with our guests.
00:04:35
There we are.
00:04:42 Speaker 4
Long on Benjamins Britain gets and there are the places and spaces around you.
00:04:52 Ben
It is my great pleasure to welcome to the podcast Farria. Hello and welcome.
00:04:58 Fariya
Hi so pleased to be here.
00:05:01 Ben
I'm very pleased you've joined us.
00:05:03 Nicky
And where are you joining us from?
00:05:05 Fariya
So I live in Berlin, Germany, but as you can probably tell from my accent, I am not German. I am an erstwhile Canadian and I once resident of London wow Globetrotter.
00:05:19 Ben
Yes, indeed. And we met for the first time.
00:05:22 Ben
When we were both in Ghana.
00:05:24 Fariya
Yes, that's true. Actually, we initially met in across airport because we were taking the same flight to Tamale. You were in front of me and.
00:05:31 Ben
Did we?
00:05:37 Fariya
I think we.
00:05:37 Fariya
Just said like like kind of that weird high that you say when you like encounter other expats.
00:05:43
Yeah, sure.
00:05:44 Fariya
Broadly and then when we landed in Tamale, Lindsay had come to pick me up. Lindsay being the mutual friend that we know each other through, Lindsay came to pick me up and saw Ben and then introduced us.
00:05:58 Nicky
Oh, that's so funny.
00:06:00 Ben
Oh my God, your memory is better than mine but.
00:06:03 Ben
That's right, yeah.
00:06:05 Nicky
It's good thing that you weren't like Ben didn't like trip you up or do something annoying.
00:06:10 Nicky
Imagine if you'd have had like an.
00:06:11 Nicky
Argument or just you know.
00:06:13 Nicky
Just like, oh, that guy, that British guy. So damn annoying.
00:06:17 Nicky
Ohh it's nice to meet you, yeah.
00:06:21 Nicky
That would have been.
00:06:23 Ben
It was the start of a beautiful friendship because you relocated to London and that's where we properly connected, I suppose. And then you once you were.
00:06:32 Ben
Introduced to the world.
00:06:33 Ben
Landmark. You know, locked in for.
00:06:36 Fariya
Yeah, big fan, you know huge.
00:06:38 Nicky
Fan. So you started with Kew Gardens? Is that the first one?
00:06:42 Fariya
Yes. So yeah, we did queue gardens when I wasn't actually officially living in London yet, so that was.
00:06:50 Ben
I still let you do another.
00:06:54 Fariya
That was London, June 2016.
00:06:58 Fariya
It was a very interesting time because I happened to be there at actually at South Bank Centre when the flotilla and the Thames happened where like the pro Brexit like with the boat.
00:07:11
Yeah, and yeah.
00:07:13
That's that's.
00:07:15 Nicky
That's a moment in time.
00:07:17 Fariya
Yeah. So like that summer also that visit that two week visit to London, which was to actually see if I could live there, yeah.
00:07:25 Fariya
You know, so it's like wrapped up in that big memory. But yeah, we did cute gardens, which I loved.
00:07:29 Ben
I like the fact that you did.
00:07:30 Ben
A landmark, you know, convinced you that London is the.
00:07:33 Ben
Place to live.
00:07:35 Fariya
In in a way I loved Kew Gardens and what I recall from that was there's like, photos of me literally stopping to smell the roses.
00:07:44 Fariya
We were there for something like 5 hours.
00:07:47 Ben
We did a.
00:07:48 Ben
Big trip, yeah.
00:07:50 Ben
It's a real shame. In the picture we took that day, I am massively in the foreground and my big fat head and you.
00:07:55 Ben
And Lindsey are way.
00:07:57 Ben
Off in the background, doing a dancing and posing and you wouldn't even know you're in the photo.
00:08:01 Nicky
I think I know what photo this is, isn't it? It's a photo of the big pagoda. Ah, yes.
00:08:06 Ben
Yeah, it's got the pagoda.
00:08:07 Ben
In the background, yeah.
00:08:10 Fariya
But that's when I.
00:08:11 Fariya
Juice you to my doctrine of power posing. And that's why.
00:08:15 Fariya
That photo looks like that.
00:08:16 Ben
It's the power pose. Of course it is.
00:08:20 Fariya
Yeah, I was like, you need to Crouch down. You get the full pagoda and then.
00:08:23 Fariya
We'll be in the background.
00:08:25 Ben
Of course it was.
00:08:26 Ben
It was your. Yeah, your photo design which led to this, yeah.
00:08:32 Nicky
That was in 20.
00:08:35 Nicky
How long was it until the next one?
00:08:37 Ben
Well, you must have been living in London full time now. I must have.
00:08:41 Ben
Been able to go.
00:08:42 Ben
And do another trip.
00:08:43 Fariya
It was June or July 2017, and I know this is because in May 2017 I had a work trip to Berlin where I crashed a Segway and gave myself a black eye.
00:08:48 Ben
OK.
00:08:58
Of course you do.
00:08:58 Fariya
Among other injuries and in the photos from that trip.
00:09:04 Fariya
My black eye is like just fading.
00:09:06
Our course of thought.
00:09:11 Ben
It was outside Angela Merkel.
00:09:13 Ben
's house, if I recall.
00:09:14 Fariya
Yes, that's where the accident happened. Not where our landmark was.
00:09:22 Ben
We went to Clifton House in Buckinghamshire, a scene of the Profumo affair, which you'll be familiar familiar with if you watch the Crown early seasons.
00:09:30 Ben
And yes, Maria, without you, we never would have actually gone into the hotel because I was too timid.
00:09:36 Ben
Will you help me out there?
00:09:37 Nicky
Yeah, I remembered you telling that story to me just casually.
00:09:41 Nicky
And I was like, how did you get in?
00:09:42 Nicky
There in the pool where the pool is.
00:09:45 Fariya
Just me being deeply North American and being like, hi, hello. We're here doing this thing. We would just like a picture with the pool. And they're like, oh, that's really cute and wholesome. So yes, you may.
00:10:03 Ben
I was very, very pleased with the.
00:10:04 Ben
End result, so thank you.
00:10:06 Nicky
Yeah, that doesn't normally happen. When it's me. I'm like Ben. Don't say anything. This is too embarrassing.
00:10:10 Ben
It's a brave one without Nikki.
00:10:16 Nicky
But suddenly I become so British that I'm.
00:10:19 Nicky
Just like don't.
00:10:20 Nicky
Rustle any feathers. This is too much.
00:10:25 Ben
But yeah, we got our photo.
00:10:26 Ben
With the swimming pool. Where?
00:10:27 Ben
This big international scandal took.
00:10:29 Ben
Place so I.
00:10:29 Ben
Was I was chuffed.
00:10:30 Nicky
So that's the other two. So we'll we'll save the other one for a minute.
00:10:36 Ben
There's obviously this podcast. This whole project is about British history, that you are a Canadian living in Germany and someone of Bangladeshi heritage, so I imagine your relationship with British history is probably a bit different than Indian and mines would that would that.
00:10:53 Fariya
Yeah, for me be living in London as a Bangladeshi Canadian, right? Being the subject of the British Empire a few times over itself.
00:11:04 Fariya
It was really interesting to be in, you know, the mother country. The reason why I speak English, the reason why I'm able to.
00:11:14 Fariya
Move through the world in a certain way, and I mean also because of empire, I was able to vote in British elections.
00:11:22 Fariya
When I lived there.
00:11:23 Fariya
Because if you're a citizen of the Commonwealth and you are a resident in the UK, you are allowed to.
00:11:28 Fariya
Vote in these elections.
00:11:32 Fariya
But I'm sorry.
00:11:32
Of course. Right. Right.
00:11:32 Fariya
I officially moved to the UK in October 2016 and I remember being in a black cab.
00:11:39 Fariya
I think coming from the airport and hearing one of those men on the street interviews about, you know, the Brexit vote and you know, they were asking people, which way did you vote?
00:11:50 Fariya
And why and?
00:11:52
One of the.
00:11:52 Fariya
Ones that really struck me and has stayed with me all these years is they interviewed a Kenyan taxi driver.
00:12:00 Fariya
Who said he voted for Brexit because he wanted Britain to shoot itself in the foot after what it had done to Kenya under the colonial regime, which, you know, only really ended in 1967. And so I think in a way, sometimes my relationship with Britain feels like that.
00:12:22 Ben
Right, right. Not sure. Really. Who's got the last laugh yet?
00:12:28 Fariya
Yeah, it's again. That's why I said like it's a very conflicted position. And so again that I would, that's why I would say characterises my own relationship with Britain and the legacy of empire.
00:12:41 Ben
Which makes total sense and growing up. Were you aware of diggers like Henry the eighth, or William the Conqueror? Did these names mean anything to you?
00:12:50 Fariya
Uh, no.
00:12:50 Fariya
Really. I mean, so I also grew up in Dubai. So that's also, you know, Once Upon a time a British protector.
00:12:56
Right.
00:13:01 Fariya
In the Middle East, we didn't go that far into British history. Like really you you encounter British history starting, I would say, like World War One growing. Yeah, that kind of stuff. And it's like, OK, 20th century. Let's go. But I think.
00:13:13 Ben
Right, pretty modern.
00:13:20 Fariya
And then for me, in terms of my then formal education at university, where I actually technically have a minor in history.
00:13:28 Ben
Love it. Just a reminder.
00:13:30 Fariya
Just a minor, sorry Ben.
00:13:35 Fariya
My my history courses were always with in relation to my international relations degree, so really British history for me in a way, is very much on its foreign policy.
00:13:44 Fariya
So post the Treaty of Westphalia so you know if I'm. If we're dealing with Henry the eighth or Elizabeth the first, there's more. Like their relationship with, you know, other Catholic states to Spanish.
00:13:48 Ben
OK.
00:13:56 Fariya
Et cetera. The rise of the Church of England and the impact it had on relations with other nations in Europe.
00:14:04 Ben
Very interesting.
00:14:05 Ben
My general rule with landmarks is the older the landmark, the more I'm kind of into it.
00:14:12 Ben
So the further back you go, I.
00:14:14 Ben
Personally, I think the better the landmark, that's just.
00:14:17 Nicky
This episode's gonna come up just after the line about Blackpool Pleasure Beach, which is definitely one of the newer ones.
00:14:23 Ben
That's true. So we're already already winning today in this season.
00:14:29 Nicky
It apparently so.
00:14:31 Ben
Yeah, I'm a suck up. I'm.
00:14:32 Ben
A sucker for a Roman.
00:14:33 Ben
A Roman castle up or an ancient iron.
00:14:35 Ben
Age. Hillfort. Oh my God.
00:14:38 Fariya
You're like, hold me back.
00:14:41 Nicky
Can't stop going there.
00:14:46 Ben
So today's landmark is a good one.
00:14:51 Ben
Area as established, you've been to three of the historical landmarks in my book and we've asked you to bring one for our discussion today in the episode would.
00:15:00 Ben
You like to introduce.
00:15:01 Ben
That landmark and tell us out.
00:15:03 Ben
Of three. Why you?
00:15:04 Ben
Chose this one.
00:15:05 Fariya
Yes, very excited to talk about this landmark. So this landmark is Kenilworth Castle and one of the reasons why I want to talk about this one.
00:15:10
OK.
00:15:22 Fariya
Is, I think, from all the monuments I've been to with you, this has the largest scale.
00:15:28 Fariya
There is a photo on my Instagram which has the ruins of the castle in the background and cows grazing in the foreground and the cows are tiny and.
00:15:38 Fariya
We parked the car and we like cross the road and that's that's what you see and we were.
00:15:43 Fariya
Like wow, OK.
00:15:46 Ben
It is just outside of Coventry in Warwickshire.
00:15:50 Ben
By the way.
00:15:51 Ben
I know it's gonna be unbelievable to.
00:15:52 Ben
Hear this? But this is the first.
00:15:54 Ben
Castle that we've had on the podcast.
00:15:57 Nicky
No it isn't.
00:15:58 Fariya
Really think about it.
00:16:00 Nicky
No it isn't.
00:16:01 Ben
It is. I know I double checked.
00:16:04 Ben
That's sports without cathedrals, but never caught more.
00:16:08 Nicky
What's the Tower of London?
00:16:14 Nicky
No, I'm not sure what what definition of the Tower of London is.
00:16:18 Ben
You know that's that's.
00:16:19 Ben
Fair, but OK, put it this way.
00:16:21 Ben
The first one.
00:16:21 Ben
Was Castle officially upfront in his title Kennilworth?
00:16:26 Nicky
Literally called blah blah castle.
00:16:28 Nicky
And is the description of the podcast online is like the parcels and country homes? I don't.
00:16:35 Nicky
And we've never had a castle.
00:16:37 Ben
And and and a good chunk of my.
00:16:40 Ben
Book is castles.
00:16:41 Ben
I think they're.
00:16:42 Ben
Up there with.
00:16:42 Ben
The best landmarks. I'm very excited that you've bought.
00:16:45 Ben
This one for us to discuss today.
00:16:47 Nicky
I can't believe that actually.
00:16:48 Fariya
Yeah, I am also similarly shocked. Wow, what an honour.
00:16:53 Nicky
It's a purist choice, I would say.
00:16:57 Ben
Yeah, but you're right, it is massive. I I was shocked by the scale of it, as just even Skype as we approached it, I get excited when I'm coming up for like that. It just looks so massive.
00:17:10 Ben
On the approach.
00:17:11 Fariya
Yeah. It's just it's very impressive. And at this point, it's the time to mention that it's in the book for what appears to be what I would call a mundane reason, right? I know critics may disagree. Controversial statements being made, but correct me if I'm wrong.
00:17:22 Ben
With who?
00:17:31 Fariya
It is in.
00:17:32 Fariya
The book because in 1266 it was a site of Britain's longest siege right six months.
00:17:38 Ben
That that is the reason it's in.
00:17:39 Ben
The book, yes.
00:17:40 Fariya
Yes. So we rock up and yeah, we're like, cool. Clearly, there was a giant Moat here. It's a very large castle, lots of Florida.
00:17:50 Fariya
Locations and actually when we were there because it was the weekend, there was some sort of like.
00:17:55 Fariya
Reenactment going on.
00:17:57 Fariya
You know, there are people in costumes saw like a jousting demonstration. Wow. And so we're like, oh, cool, cool. And then we kind of wander into this other bit of the castle.
00:18:02 Ben
We did indeed.
00:18:11 Fariya
And then things really got interesting and last surprise reason is the reason why I picked.
00:18:16
Oh this.
00:18:21 Fariya
This landmark, so as I said, come for the site of Britain's longest siege stay for the monument to being blue balled by Elizabeth the 1st.
00:18:34 Nicky
I love it and.
00:18:34 Nicky
I can't wait to hear more.
00:18:36 Ben
I've got a caption from your Instagram.
00:18:37 Ben
Post off the day Syria.
00:18:39 Fariya
Oh please enlighten me, I.
00:18:41
Don't remember.
00:18:43 Ben
Just summed up, due to the you.
00:18:45 Ben
Know some small bits about.
00:18:47 Ben
What a lovely day out with.
00:18:48 Ben
My good friend, blah blah blah.
00:18:50 Ben
And then you describe the castle.
00:18:52 Ben
As a monument to being friendzoned.
00:18:56 Ben
It was just perfect.
00:18:59 Ben
So just to be clear, the figures we're.
00:19:01 Ben
Talking about here are queen.
00:19:02 Ben
Elizabeth first and a Lord named Robert Dudley.
00:19:07 Ben
Who has been portrayed a couple of times on on the big and small screen? If you've seen the 1998 film Elizabeth of Cate Blanchett, Robert Dudley played by Joseph Finnes.
00:19:18 Ben
And he's also played by Jeremy Irons in the five version of the same story as well. And you know, you have quite strong views on this, this coughing.
00:19:29 Fariya
Jeremy Irons is the hornier choice. That's.
00:19:32 Fariya
What I'm saying, and the harnier casting choice like they were like, Oh yeah, we need to portray that there was some.
00:19:38 Fariya
Heat between Robert Dudley and Elizabeth the first. Who can we get to Telegraph that very clearly and Jeremy Irons voice alone?
00:19:48 Nicky
Oh, the voice is just something.
00:19:51 Nicky
The only person I could think that could possibly match.
00:19:55 Nicky
Is if they went for Josephines brother, Ralph. I'm a Ralph girl.
00:20:01
Do you? Do you?
00:20:01 Ben
Prefer do you prefer Voldemort? Do you think you?
00:20:03 Ben
Would have a better romance.
00:20:04 Nicky
You know what? I went to go and see Ralph Finnes in the the theatre and when?
00:20:10 Nicky
I was getting.
00:20:10 Nicky
A drink at.
00:20:11 Nicky
The bar Joseph fines was there and I was.
00:20:13 Nicky
Like, Oh my God, it's the fines.
00:20:16 Ben
Buying bonanza?
00:20:18 Nicky
Yeah, I've never seen Jeremy Irons so sadly, but.
00:20:21 Nicky
What you gonna do? Anyway, I digress.
00:20:24 Ben
Well, I can tell you in both adaptations, Elizabeth is very much portrayed as being deeply in love with Mr Lord Dudley.
00:20:35 Fariya
Mr Lord Dudley and.
00:20:39 Nicky
Is that the true historical facts?
00:20:42 Ben
This I think that is.
00:20:44 Ben
The key question.
00:20:46 Fariya
Yes. Yeah. I mean I think the like exhibit or like the curation of that part of the cat.
00:20:53 Fariya
Phil was smart and didn't say whether or not it was reciprocated. They were.
00:21:00 Fariya
Here are the artefacts you make up your own mind, and so you know what we know is he gets given the castle by Elizabeth the 1st.
00:21:10 Ben
A very nice gift, you.
00:21:12 Ben
Don't give that to someone you're not close to.
00:21:14 Nicky
Bagging, I mean.
00:21:16 Fariya
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Well you.
00:21:19 Fariya
Asterix alleged supposed whatever words we need to use, then he obviously renovates because I think it was already a ruin when it was given to him in a way, it was crumbling.
00:21:31 Ben
Yeah, he did he.
00:21:32 Ben
Didn't build the castle. They'd be knocking around for.
00:21:34 Ben
400 years already by this point.
00:21:36 Nicky
So it's like, here's a gift I really.
00:21:38 Nicky
Like you, but it's a bit shit.
00:21:42 Nicky
It's a project, it's.
00:21:43 Fariya
Fun maybe if you spend time renovating this castle, you'll stop trying to marry me.
00:21:49 Fariya
Which is a which is a theme. So renovates it and for one of her royal progresses like builds an entire gatehouse, which is like basically an apartment complex of the day, which is specifically for her and her courtiers and her entourage to stay in should she come and visit the castle.
00:22:09 Fariya
He built.
00:22:11 Ben
Please come and visit the castle. This is what you're saying?
00:22:13 Fariya
I've made this entire building just for you the way you like. It builds an entire like Elizabethan era.
00:22:20 Fariya
Like garden for her.
00:22:23 Ben
I think they call it the pleasure grounds, actually.
00:22:27 Fariya
Right by the grants. You know I'm I'm for listeners at home. I am waggling my eyebrows and yeah, builds builds this big garden to be like, wow, look how much I like you.
00:22:42 Fariya
What if you came here because you were my wife?
00:22:45 Fariya
Sometimes you know.
00:22:47 Fariya
So we wander through the garden, we find this purpose built building.
00:22:54 Fariya
And then we come across this like weird exhibit. It's weird because it's like there's not really signage. There's no indication that this actually exists.
00:23:04 Fariya
We're just wandering around and we find.
00:23:06 Fariya
It, which are the letters between?
00:23:08 Ben
That's right. Cool.
00:23:10 Fariya
Elizabeth the 1st and Robert Dudley. And that's when Ben and I are reading the transcripts and we're like.
00:23:22 Fariya
Pretty *****.
00:23:27 Fariya
Wow, OK, they were definitely doing it. I mean, of course, the exhibit itself would never say like that's the conclusion you should draw, but once you read those letters, you're like, OK, right.
00:23:40 Ben
You know this this question is what people.
00:23:42 Ben
Have been debating for four.
00:23:43 Ben
150.
00:23:43 Ben
Years, were they shagging or not right in the 1998 film.
00:23:49 Ben
Yeah, pretty heavily suggests they were. Did you read the letters while you heard from his conclusion? Just walking around his castle and learning how much Robert Dudley did to impress the queen? Well, he certainly wanted to. If he wasn't ready.
00:24:05 Nicky
Oh, that is. That is some Tudor film.
00:24:09 Ben
Well, we can add another piece of.
00:24:11 Ben
Evidence to the pile.
00:24:12 Ben
Here. So Robert Dudley, we learned.
00:24:15 Ben
This when we were.
00:24:15 Ben
Walking the castle he may have been flirting with the.
00:24:17 Ben
Queen, but there was.
00:24:18 Ben
One small problem. He was already married.
00:24:21 Nicky
That's not ideal.
00:24:22 Ben
He was married to.
00:24:23 Ben
A woman named Amy and Amy was in 1560, mysteriously.
00:24:29 Ben
Found dead at the bottom of a staircase with a neck broken. Now whether that was murder, suicide or an accident, it's never been proven, but it sure was convenient for our friend Robert Dudley.
00:24:42 Fariya
Convenient set of stairs.
00:24:44 Nicky
Did she live there at the castle? Did it happen there or just totally? It's like, oh, yeah, no, you can't come to my castle Soz. That's that's for someone else.
00:24:53 Fariya
So she died in 1560. The castle gets given to him in 1563.
00:25:00 Ben
Once the wife is out of.
00:25:01 Ben
The way.
00:25:02 Fariya
Yeah, yeah. I mean, from my reading, it seems like once she died, Elizabeth was like, right. You can really be in my court all the time because you don't have a wife to keep you busy.
00:25:13 Nicky
Whatever happened, at least she was, you know, she the goal code was there, I guess.
00:25:19 Nicky
Maybe it's tenuous, but.
00:25:22 Ben
These two potential lovebirds had known each other since they were kids. We think we think they properly, properly got to know each other.
00:25:29 Ben
And then they were both prisoners in the Tower of London during Elizabeth's sisters reigned queen.
00:25:33 Ben
Mary's reign.
00:25:34 Ben
She had them both in Tower of London. That's where they struck up her friendship, apparently.
00:25:39 Fariya
I mean trauma bonding, right? Yeah.
00:25:43 Nicky
Like we might die. We better do something.
00:25:47 Ben
Elizabeth came to visit Kenilworth Castle on.
00:25:49 Ben
Landmark of the.
00:25:50 Ben
Day four Times Now. Period. Do you remember learning about this? There was one particular trip which I think was pretty special.
00:25:59 Fariya
Yeah. So it's the last one which I believe lasted for 19 days, which was the longest. Yeah, longest day ever.
00:26:07 Fariya
So she took up residence in the purpose built apartments, and my understanding is there is a.
00:26:11 Fariya
Lot of things planned.
00:26:13 Fariya
You know, vets fees, plays.
00:26:17 Fariya
One thing from my reading stands out and one thing from memory stands out. The one thing from reading is that apparently she couldn't see the garden from her apartment and so Dudley got the gardeners to make a mini version of it right outside her window. Which again we're like I I like honestly.
00:26:20
Go on.
00:26:37 Fariya
I hope.
00:26:39 Fariya
She gave him some.
00:26:41 Fariya
You know the effort is really like, wow, you know?
00:26:44 Ben
He's really trying.
00:26:46 Nicky
This guy is a simp.
00:26:48 Fariya
Exactly. And the second thing is one of the plays that was supposed to be performed was this big allegorical play about a virtuous queen.
00:26:59 Fariya
And the way the play resolved itself was that the virtuous Queen realises it is the moral thing, the moral imperative for her.
00:27:09 Fariya
To marry in order to be the best queen.
00:27:14 Nicky
I'm not gonna lie. I'm getting the ick.
00:27:18 Ben
So bad for Robert Dudley.
00:27:23 Ben
You should.
00:27:24 Fariya
And my understanding is that Elizabeth gets wind of it, she says. Do not perform it under any circumstances. And Dudley is like, you know, I think I will still go ahead.
00:27:39 Fariya
But then, as luck would have it, the day it was supposed to be performed, which is the last day of her visit.
00:27:44 Fariya
Got it. Got rained out.
00:27:46 Fariya
So it was never performed.
00:27:47 Nicky
Probably for the best. That sounds trash.
00:27:50 Ben
She rode off. Yeah, that was it. That was his final chance. It wasn't successful. After this visit, I think Dudley accepted that his stuff wasn't going to ever want to be with him.
00:27:59 Ben
And so Dudley did end up remarrying and he remarried. The Queen's cousin kept it in the family and apparently.
00:28:05 Ben
The queen? Never.
00:28:06 Ben
Spoke to her cousin ever again.
00:28:08 Ben
And after that, nevertheless, Dudley and Elizabeth did patch up their friendship, and it really was a friendship from that point onwards.
00:28:16 Ben
And Dudley was the stage manager of Elizabeth's trip to Tilbury, which we discussed on an earlier podcast, famous Spanish Armada Speech. He was there by her side, and he died.
00:28:28 Ben
Really shortly after.
00:28:30 Ben
But maybe Elizabeth apex, her peak and most famous moment, Robert Dudley was there, which I know. I think it's sweet.
00:28:37 Nicky
I mean, yeah, it is, but it also sounds like.
00:28:42 Nicky
Come on. I don't think about Elizabeth the first. I always think what was going on up there like she got proposed to and she had a lot of offers. And she was like, Nah. So she was either.
00:28:42 Ben
Yeah, yeah.
00:28:51 Nicky
Just like I like playing with these men.
00:28:55 Nicky
But I don't need them or she wasn't really into the men, possibly. Or she was just like.
00:29:03 Nicky
Oh man, I just can't be asked for having a husband. She could have all the good stuff of none of.
00:29:08 Nicky
The bad.
00:29:09 Fariya
Think I my theory is that she was trying to avoid the tension that Elizabeth the second had right where she was queen outright at that time.
00:29:19 Fariya
She would then, if she married some of that person, would be king and she didn't want to dilute.
00:29:23 Fariya
That power, and of course in the 20th century that became part of the tension, you know, as depicting the crown. But you know, most people say that is accurate between Prince Philip.
00:29:33 Fariya
Even Queen Elizabeth's right that she was his queen.
00:29:37 Nicky
Yeah. Are you my queen? Are you my wife? Like, where's the line drawn? And I guess eventually they get there. But.
00:29:43 Ben
Yeah, of course. The traditional reason. Maybe the child friendly reason has been passed down in the history books is that Elizabeth wants to remain the Virgin Queen married to her country. I think Korea remains unconvinced by this explanation.
00:30:01 Nicky
Right. I don't know because she didn't have any children. It's she knew that if she didn't have any children, that was that was it.
00:30:07 Nicky
For The Tudors.
00:30:08 Nicky
And we know about Mary and.
00:30:10 Nicky
What not. So there's a lot going on.
00:30:12 Ben
You're. You're right. I'm surprised at that. Need to produce an heir. Didn't override her desire. Other desires. Not not to wish to marry you.
00:30:20 Fariya
Yeah. Also is it. Would it really be her heir or her husband's heir?
00:30:25
Oh yeah.
00:30:26 Ben
I'm sure that was playing on her mind.
00:30:28 Fariya
Yeah. And you were saying that in the film adaptations, it seemed that she was spurning other people because Dudley was her real love and they could never be together, etcetera, etcetera.
00:30:38 Fariya
And I'm like, I feel she got what she needed from that dude without having to marry him. And so, you know, I think it really for me falls on.
00:30:47 Fariya
Side of.
00:30:49 Fariya
Her having unitary power as queen.
00:30:53 Nicky
Basically, she had a boyfriend, right?
00:30:57 Ben
A bit on the side.
00:30:57 Nicky
Yeah. Yeah, it's not on the side because she didn't have a main course.
00:31:02 Ben
Right, that's true. That's true.
00:31:03 Fariya
England was her main course.
00:31:08 Ben
I do want to say what Clyde's done, though. I mean, what I do love about castles is you've normally got, you know, sometimes 1000 years of history and kings and Queens.
00:31:19 Ben
And of course, someone like Clive included in his book and picks one episode within that timeline to highlight he put it.
00:31:26 Ben
In this book, because of this.
00:31:28 Ben
Famous six month Long Siege, which was a English mediaeval record, and it is interesting. The guy who held the castle at the time was this bloke Simon de Montford. He was he was a guy who.
00:31:42 Ben
Revolted against King Henry three in the 1200s, but he set up.
00:31:47 Ben
A parliament, the.
00:31:48 Ben
First Parliament, where individuals commoners from each county and town in the country were invited to come and represent their well themselves, maybe their constituents, but at least they're part.
00:32:00 Ben
Of the country and he's.
00:32:01 Ben
Held it as a pretty big.
00:32:03 Ben
Moment in the history of British democracy.
00:32:09 Ben
But it's not as juicy as Elizabeth and.
00:32:11 Nicky
Deadly. No, it's not as juicy.
00:32:13 Ben
Can we just talk about how much fun it is to actually just have a good explore around Kenilworth Castle? Because it's almost entirely ruined and you can you can have a good old climb over the ruins.
00:32:27 Fariya
The staircases, and so the 2nd floor are so.
00:32:29 Fariya
Sort of intact. So we did a lot of like climbing around.
00:32:33 Fariya
And you could.
00:32:34 Fariya
Tell where there were like this was actually like the great.
00:32:36 Fariya
Hall these rooms.
00:32:38 Ben
That's right.
00:32:40 Fariya
You can see the fortifications like there's like that change in elevation. The jousts were kind of like where the stables were.
00:32:49 Fariya
Yeah, it was. It was a lot of fun to just kind of like rock around this.
00:32:53 Fariya
Higher ruin.
00:32:55 Ben
That's right.
00:32:56 Fariya
Yeah, just so impressive. Just like, so big that we're just not prepared for how large the grounds were going to be and how how large the castle was actually.
00:33:05 Ben
Yeah. Even though we went in July, we it felt like the place was quite empty. We we had big chunks of it to ourselves, which I always love, and we took a photo, which I now remember and realised you were striking one of your.
00:33:20 Ben
Classic power poses in the photo.
00:33:24 Fariya
My rappers gratitude squad.
00:33:29 Fariya
With the prayer in hands as the.
00:33:30 Nicky
Oh cool.
00:33:32 Fariya
It's my signature move.
00:33:33 Nicky
And was it, was it?
00:33:33 Nicky
Just the two of you.
00:33:35 Ben
It was just.
00:33:35 Ben
The two of us that we must have we.
00:33:36 Ben
Must have driven up from London.
00:33:38 Nicky
Day off? Or was this a weekend?
00:33:40 Fariya
It was a weekend, but I think that's because I was working, but Ben was not.
00:33:46 Ben
July 2018 I was.
00:33:48 Ben
Yeah, I was between jobs at this.
00:33:50 Ben
Point I was unemployed at.
00:33:50 Ben
This time this summer.
00:33:51 Fariya
That's so excited.
00:33:53 Ben
You remember we went for a lovely pub lunch for.
00:33:55 Ben
You it was right opposite the castle.
00:33:56 Fariya
Oh, amazing.
00:34:01 Fariya
Yeah. Yeah. And it was super lovely. And it was a Sunday. So we got the Sunday roast and it was just like a. It was such a lovely end.
00:34:11 Fariya
To that day.
00:34:14 Nicky
Winter Central Sunday, bro.
00:34:16 Nicky
And Sunday, Ohh Castle and a roast. What more would you?
00:34:20
Want exactly?
00:34:20 Ben
I remember that pub lunch really well and because I had only recently started cutting my hair quite short in response to a very receding hairline.
00:34:32 Ben
But I only recently taking decision.
00:34:34 Ben
To do something about it and.
00:34:35
I was still.
00:34:36 Ben
Feeling a bit self-conscious about it, I wasn't sure, but.
00:34:40 Ben
As it happens, I remember you took ferria a really nice photo of me.
00:34:45 Ben
At that pub.
00:34:46 Ben
Lunch, which I just really liked.
00:34:49 Ben
The look was presenting and I remember that being.
00:34:52 Ben
Quite a quite a moment for me.
00:34:54 Ben
You do remember those moments, and I I went back on my own Instagram and realised the day we went I posted that.
00:35:00 Ben
Photo on Instagram.
00:35:01 Ben
Because I liked it. Cherry on top of a.
00:35:04 Ben
Lovely day out.
00:35:05 Fariya
Yeah, I love it. I am always a big proponent of, first of all, friends feeling themselves but taking good photos of friends and taking good photos. Hence my like mini tutorials and power posing.
00:35:20 Nicky
I'm probably the opposite. I'd probably take pictures of Ben and.
00:35:23 Nicky
He's just doing something stupid. So you've heard our podcast.
00:35:27 Nicky
You probably know the formula the rating system out of 10 three questions. The first rating is what is the historical significance of Kenilworth Castle out of 10?
00:35:39 Fariya
So this one's hard because it's in the book for.
00:35:42 Fariya
And we found it interesting for another reason.
00:35:47 Nicky
That happens sometimes so.
00:35:51 Fariya
You know what? I'll split the difference. I'll say 6.
00:35:55 Fariya
OK. Yeah, just.
00:35:55 Ben
Giving it 6.
00:35:57 Nicky
I always think castles, castles innately have a sense of history.
00:36:02 Nicky
Yeah, about them, regardless of what happened there, they're a symbol of the past, aren't they? They're a symbol of what happened.
00:36:09 Ben
Yeah, and every age is represented in them somehow. Saxon, Mediaeval, Tudor, Civil War, World War Two. Normally there's normally a a chunk of history related to it, yeah.
00:36:20 Nicky
OK. So the second rating is the fun factor.
00:36:25 Fariya
11 out of 10.
00:36:29 Fariya
It it was so much fun. I think all I think also because I don't want to be like expectations were low expectations were mid.
00:36:37 Fariya
But then when when we got there like kind of understanding the scale of it and like how much we could.
00:36:45 Fariya
Actually roam around.
00:36:47 Fariya
And you know, like the garden is kind of off to the side. So you kind of round a corner and then you see this beautiful garden and you're like, wow, amazing.
00:36:55 Fariya
And I think also adding to the fun factor was the fact that there was like a reenactment going on, yeah.
00:37:01 Ben
That's always fun. Always fun.
00:37:02 Fariya
Yeah, like so giant. You know, people were trying to eat those giant Turkey legs and jazz.
00:37:06 Fariya
Playing and stewing and people in armour.
00:37:09 Fariya
And all that stuff.
00:37:12 Nicky
And you've got to remember, if there's a pub with a pub lunch opposite, then you can't go wrong.
00:37:17 Fariya
With a very good roast like that was actually like a really good meal.
00:37:22 Nicky
And we've got our third rating, which is the Insta worthiness as we call it.
00:37:26 Ben
How photogenic is it?
00:37:28 Fariya
I'd say 10 out of 10. I I think it's one of those where like I wish you know, we had like a better iPhone or a better camera.
00:37:29 Ben
Well, hey.
00:37:36 Fariya
Or even a.
00:37:36 Fariya
Drone because the scale of it was so sweet.
00:37:39 Fariya
Ping. Absolutely gorgeous, and I think my one regret is that it wasn't a sunnier day because I can imagine on a sunny day it would have been mint.
00:37:49 Ben
Landmarks. You gotta take them. Clouds, rain, shine, snow.
00:37:54 Nicky
We've been through it all.
00:37:57 Ben
I actually own a drone now, so you know future Castle ruins. Watch out.
00:38:04 Ben
Three, you have scored Kenilworth Castle 27 out of 30. It's it's almost.
00:38:10 Fariya
Yeah, it was simply amazing.
00:38:12 Ben
That is, that is giving it 11. Sorry, that is giving it 11 out of 10 for the fun factor. It's 26. If we give it 10.
00:38:19 Ben
Out of 10, yeah.
00:38:20 Fariya
I steadfast on 11, the one extra point is a reenactment like that one is like such a like bonus point.
00:38:31 Ben
I think you should take it.
00:38:33 Nicky
That's a really good score and a really good landmark, and I the name of it, but I really didn't know any of the history. I've never been there so.
00:38:41 Ben
It's always my pleasure when you haven't been to one of.
00:38:44 Ben
The sites in my.
00:38:44 Ben
Book yet so.
00:38:46 Ben
You should go and visit Kenilworth Castle.
00:38:48 Nicky
Yeah. Next time in in Coventry or head by.
00:38:59 Nicky
So everyone's favourite bit the the bit that Ben loves the most. I love it and is the alternative landmark. I am excited for various reasons actually.
00:39:04 Ben
It's my favourite.
00:39:13 Nicky
Which is always good.
00:39:14 Ben
And I'm I'm very curious.
00:39:20 Fariya
So my alternative landmark plays on two of today's themes.
00:39:26 Fariya
One is the Elizabethan era, and the 2nd is this thing of going to a landmark for one piece of history, but finding it significant for a completely.
00:39:29 Ben
OK.
00:39:39 Fariya
Different era of his.
00:39:41
OK.
00:39:42 Fariya
So my alternative landmark are the docks of Tilbury port.
00:39:49 Fariya
Which is in.
00:39:49
OK.
00:39:49 Fariya
The grounds of Tilbury Fort, which actually you brought up organically.
00:39:56 Fariya
During this episode, and it is significant because on 21st or 22nd June 1948, depending on which source.
00:40:05 Fariya
You look at.
00:40:06 Ben
I never thought you were in.
00:40:07 Ben
1948 here.
00:40:09 Fariya
Yeah, that is where the MV or HMS or SS Empire Windrush Dock.
00:40:17
Ohh such.
00:40:19 Ben
A good one.
00:40:20 Nicky
Obviously, we both know that Tilbury Forbes, featured in our second ever episode, and so it's it is slightly different.
00:40:30 Nicky
It's not the port, it's the port, and obviously the port is a is a.
00:40:33 Nicky
Lot newer but it.
00:40:35 Nicky
Was so funny earlier when you said when you were talking about Tilbury.
00:40:40 Ben
Well, it's so associated with Queen Elizabeth, obviously, and I did not know that was where the Windrush docks that is.
00:40:49 Ben
So when you said 1948, I thought you were, I thought you meant to.
00:40:51 Ben
Say 1648. Tell more.
00:40:53 Fariya
For me this Harkins back to the earlier part of when you asked me about my relationship to Britain and of course, for me, I think a lot about empire for a long part of that colonial history to be the mother country. And you see that.
00:41:12 Fariya
So much in the way the Windrush generation was sold on the promise of life in Britain and you know that ship.
00:41:22 Fariya
That docking in Essex, it was the start of that is the start of things that you know, for those of us who live or who have lived in modern Britain, take for granted which is multicultural Britain, institutions that we think of as indelibly British, whether it's the National Health Service, British Rail.
00:41:42 Fariya
Transport for London a lot of the post war growth in those institutions were, you know.
00:41:49 Fariya
Aided by this immigration that started with those that came over on the Empire Windrush, the Notting Hill Carnival, at the carnival on the Empire Windrush, so I think the things that we enjoy about modern Britain, you can trace back to that legacy that started on those docks and I think.
00:41:56 Nicky
Oh yeah.
00:42:09 Fariya
Also broadly, as Ben has alluded to, I work on tax justice issues. I work on political issues. I work on issues of what is owed to whom in the society that we live.
00:42:21 Fariya
In and there's.
00:42:22 Ben
Right.
00:42:23 Fariya
Always right now in the last 10 years, an inescapable rhetoric, rhetoric around the place of immigrants in British society.
00:42:32 Fariya
And so I think when we think about the empire, when much we think we should also ask ourselves what is owed to that generation and what do we owe to people who have come from other places to make their life here.
00:42:44 Fariya
You know the Windrush was the first wave of immigrants from the Caribbean islands. This was then followed.
00:42:49
Right.
00:42:50 Fariya
By immigration from my part of the world, which is South Asia, and you know, and then eventually you have immigration from Eastern Europe and these successive waves have helped build Britain, helped build the wealth of Britain. And so I urge people to think about that. When you're given narratives.
00:43:11 Fariya
The wealth of the of this nation of Britain being appropriated by quote, unquote foreigners.
00:43:17 Nicky
Even those of us who can trace them.
00:43:20 Nicky
Their Britishness, I suppose, back quite a long way, so I can trace mine back to apparently I was looking at my family tree this Christmas to the 1300s. There even. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll have to show it to you then.
00:43:35 Ben
Please do.
00:43:36 Nicky
Originally, we probably weren't British, but we were probably Vikings and we were Romans. We were, you know, it's like when you look at like a North America as well, it's very few people here who probably truly trace their ancestry back thousands of years. Really. So.
00:43:51 Ben
As you've alluded to, I don't think you can tell the story of modern Britain without telling the story of.
00:43:56 Ben
Of Windrush and things like it and I think I'm correct in saying.
00:44:01 Ben
That it's only.
00:44:02 Ben
Last year, that actually a National Monument to Windrush was established, and I've seen it. It's at Waterloo station and it's anyone living in London. It's definitely worth seeking out.
00:44:12 Nicky
There was one previous time where we've talked about Windrush and that's links with one of those alternative landmarks we've talked about before.
00:44:21 Ben
Go on.
00:44:22 Nicky
And that was the Clapham S deep level shelter.
00:44:26 Ben
Yeah, yeah.
00:44:27 Nicky
So it turns out that a lot, not all. Some of the people on the Windrush had places to go to already, but those that didn't end up going to that Clapham deep level shelter.
00:44:37 Ben
Yeah, that's cool. That's right, yeah.
00:44:39 Fariya
I mean, I think my one other thing to say is beyond, you know, all the.
00:44:44 Fariya
Maybe policy impacts. I think the that winner generation gives us also some of.
00:44:49 Fariya
Britain's iconic musical genres right like Train it trains like jungle, dub drum and bass grime in parts of reggae to to exactly that. You know those people that came over and I mean it completely changed the.
00:44:59 Ben
I'm trying to stay.
00:45:09 Fariya
The face of places such as Brixton.
00:45:12 Nicky
It is a cultural hub that would never have existed in the same.
00:45:16 Nicky
Way you'd never.
00:45:17 Nicky
Be able to going down the road and get.
00:45:18 Nicky
Your goat Curry, which is so good.
00:45:22 Ben
The Yeah, the Windrush is iconic and some of the images are iconic. But I mean what happened to the what happened to the boat? Literally afterwards did it did it?
00:45:31 Ben
Have an afterlife. Do you know it?
00:45:34 Fariya
Yes, it got sunk in the Mediterranean, I think.
00:45:37 Fariya
Like in 19.
00:45:37 Ben
OK.
00:45:37 Fariya
50 It was bringing back servicemen from the Far East.
00:45:43 Ben
Right, OK. Did I have?
00:45:45 Ben
A bit of an afterlife.
00:45:45 Nicky
I was reading about this earlier, but I didn't read whether or not those people survived or not.
00:45:50 Fariya
Most of them survived. 6 people died, but I think the ship had like 500 people.
00:45:53 Fariya
On top of it.
00:45:54 Nicky
OK, not great, but could be worse. Yeah. And one thing that I found out about it that I found really, really interesting is that originally it was a German ship.
00:45:54 Fariya
So yeah, yeah.
00:46:03 Ben
What's that?
00:46:03 Nicky
Was it? Yeah, a World War. Two German ship that got packed by the British and repurposed at Tilbury.
00:46:07 Ben
Are you kidding?
00:46:10 Ben
If one went to Tilbury Docks today, or the port of Tilbury as you described, is there anything marking that this is where the Windrush docked?
00:46:20 Fariya
So my understanding is well, the monuments at Waterloo station that like commemorations of Windrush Day happen at the Port of Tilbury.
00:46:28 Ben
Oh, interesting. Interesting.
00:46:29 Fariya
Yeah, like when there's like a function or something like the 50th anniversary, so 2018 or 60th. Sorry was.
00:46:39 Ben
Right.
00:46:40 Nicky
Someone who visited Tilbury for and around Tilbury as a kid, because I, you know, grew up.
00:46:47 Nicky
40 minutes away or so.
00:46:50 Nicky
I don't remember there being anything, but then having said that was pretty young. So it's it's quite a complex thing to learn I think when.
00:46:58 Nicky
You're a kid, but.
00:46:59 Fariya
Maybe has become more significant because of the scandal surrounding Windrush, which you know was happening in 2017. I was still living. I was still living in the UK at the time and the treatment of the Home Office of these.
00:47:04 Ben
For sure.
00:47:13 Ben
Thank you.
00:47:13 Fariya
People and actually something that's in the news right now is that after the inquiry, the Home Office is declining to actually to implement most of the major recommendations that have come out of like the Windrush inquiry.
00:47:29 Ben
In the story of British immigration, British history is a story of immigration, right? There's dozens and dozens of time periods where the history is defined by the latest wave of immigration.
00:47:42 Ben
And yeah, yeah, I would be would be honoured. I'm honoured.
00:47:46 Ben
That this is.
00:47:46 Ben
This is included in our list of alternative landmarks.
00:47:49 Ben
Because it's. Yeah, I.
00:47:50 Ben
Think it's.
00:47:51 Ben
It's sorely missing in the story that my book is presenting about the the history of our aisles, that's for sure.
00:47:58 Fariya
No, I I thought I thought you would like it a lot because it's a throwback. I think it's important to then understand how we can maybe recontextualize some of these sites and then you know the the whole thing with alternative landmarks and say, OK, what beyond this has actually really impacted Britain that we see today.
00:48:17 Fariya
And yeah, happy, happy to have picked this one. I mean it was really, I was looking around your map and I was like, oh, what?
00:48:30 Fariya
Yeah, I mean it's because of that, like I said, like I actually know where I would like to go next as my 4th landmark because I there will be more.
00:48:38 Nicky
Yes. Is there something in mind for landmark #4?
00:48:43 Fariya
Yeah, I would love to go to Shah Jahan Mosque in Woking.
00:48:51 Ben
Now that would be a great one to visit.
00:48:54 Fariya
Yes, you know it can be Ben, and far interreligious pals buddy comedy adventure because for those who don't know, I I did grow up.
00:49:04 Ben
Right.
00:49:07 Fariya
Muslim. I don't say I'm a practising Muslim because I have respect for actual practising Muslims, but that is.
00:49:13 Fariya
My my faith background, and I think it would be lovely.
00:49:15 Fariya
To go to.
00:49:15 Fariya
A mosque which was actually built by the son of like Hungarian.
00:49:22 Ben
Really this is what what an amazing interfaith monument. I'm very happy. It's just that because it's close to London but not visited by me yet because.
00:49:32 Ben
I've just been.
00:49:33 Ben
Waiting for the right opportunity and I think this.
00:49:37 Ben
Presents quite a.
00:49:38 Ben
Nice one. OK, good, this is.
00:49:41 Ben
Strong, so you must let me know the moment you plan next to be in the UK and save me an afternoon please.
00:49:48 Fariya
Yes, definitely.
00:49:50 Ben
And I guess we'll add.
00:49:52 Ben
The port of Tilbury to the list as well.
00:49:56 Nicky
I really do like that it's connected to.
00:49:59 Nicky
Not only one of your actual landmarks being being around the corner from Tilby 4, it's also Elizabeth's been there. You've really thought about earlier and Robert Dudley.
00:50:11 Ben
Good link, good link.
00:50:13 Nicky
And we've talked about it in a like in a way the Windrush from a previous episode. So it's it's a full circle.
00:50:21 Ben
Yeah, it's a very good alternative. Landmark, very smart.
00:50:25 Fariya
I had my thinking hat on when I fixed it.
00:50:30 Nicky
If you two were to go.
00:50:32 Nicky
Go to the port in Tilbury and you're going to take a photo of your trip there. What photo would there be? It sounds like it's gonna be a.
00:50:39 Nicky
Power pose.
00:50:40 Nicky
In there somewhere, yeah.
00:50:41 Ben
It feels like a power pose isn't going.
00:50:43 Ben
To be needed, yeah.
00:50:44 Fariya
If we go definitely I will be doing the rapper's gratitude squat with prayer hands, but I would insist.
00:50:56 Fariya
Then then do the other wrapper power pose, which is like arms crossed, you know, legs, legs, you know wide and just like mugging to the camera.
00:51:07 Fariya
Of course, the camera angle would be from like low, you know, so like men would be like towering over the perspective.
00:51:17 Fariya
Of whoever's taking.
00:51:18 Fariya
The photo, if we could get a.
00:51:19 Fariya
Steel drum somewhere in there I would also, yeah.
00:51:21 Ben
That would be good.
00:51:23 Fariya
Or like we're doing the gratitude squat and like the power pose. But actually in one hand Ben's got a Jamaican Patty.
00:51:32 Ben
This is great. OK, you got yourself a deal.
00:51:37 Ben
I'm pleased you've have reserved.
00:51:38 Ben
Our next one, because there's only 102 to go, so you know you know now blinking you miss it.
00:51:42 Ben
The whole thing's going to.
00:51:43 Ben
Be done. So we'll we'll get you to the next one. Hey, I think all that's.
00:51:47 Ben
Left to say is thank.
00:51:48 Ben
You so much for giving up your evening.
00:51:51 Ben
And for joining us on the podcast.
00:51:52 Fariya
I've just had such a blast. Yeah, I really miss being in the UK sometimes and this is part of it.
00:51:53 Ben
It's been great.
00:51:58 Fariya
So having moments like this and doing cute things with friends so.
00:52:04 Nicky
You've got your next one sealed up, so you're all good.
00:52:08 Ben
We'll see you soon.